When Men Break, Families Pay The Price

Two shocking headlines hit the country within days, and we couldn’t just scroll past them. We sit down as four brothers and talk plainly about domestic violence, intimate partner violence, and what’s happening when a relationship conflict turns into control, threats, and tragedy. The facts are heavy, but the goal is clear: name what’s real, stop pretending men are fine, and push back on the silence that lets pressure build until somebody explodes. 

We dig into why it feels like these cases are climbing, and how social media and the internet can make it worse by feeding comparison, outrage, and reckless “get them back” advice. We connect the dots between stress, shame, isolation, and the way many men were raised without the words to process rejection, loss, or fear. When emotions stay trapped, they don’t disappear. They leak into irritability, drinking, stalking, jealousy, and that dangerous moment where logic shuts off and people make permanent decisions over temporary pain. 

We also talk about warning signs loved ones can watch for, and what healthy interruption looks like: checking in early, asking better questions, creating safe spaces to vent without judgment, getting professional help, and leaning on faith when your mind is spiraling. If you’re in a losing season, we want you to hear this clearly: a loss doesn’t mean you’re a loser, and it’s not the end of your story. 

If this conversation helps, subscribe, share it with someone you care about, and leave a review so more people can find it when they need it most.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:03

Welcome to the Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men. I'm your host, Brian Gadine, and I'm joined by my brothers Keith, Danny, and Steve. We're your waiters, bringing you truth with a side of humor, loaded with accountability and thought. We now bring you to our program already in progress. Just hold on. We're coming. All right. Good evening. It's Iron Table. It's uh where iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men. We have been on a hiatus for about two months, um, taking care of some personal business. But while we were gone, some interesting things. I like to use the word crazy, but here we're trying to increase our vocabulary. So we're gonna say some interesting things happened, and we're gonna talk about it in a in a couple of minutes, but before then, I gotta uh check on my brothers, uh Keith, Danny, and Steve. Um, just see how y'all have been doing for the past uh two months. Last time we met was in January, right? So we took uh Black History Month off, and then we decided to march because they used to march in Black History Month. So we we took March off too. We sat down, but now we're in April, uh springtime, all that pollen, all the sun dresses, and all that other stuff um is about to start. So we don't we don't condone that, but that's what's going on. So before we get into it, you know, fellas, just kind of bring everybody who's watching um online, uh bring them up to speed by what's been going on.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Yeah, I'll just start off by just saying how it was interesting going back to homecoming after 25 years of graduating, or with the people that graduate. We um we're not as young as we used to be, but the alternative is what I want to avoid, so I'm grateful. We're here.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Yeah, that that is true. We uh we're not out. I was planning to go on and hang out Saturday night. It it ain't happening, but I had a plan in my head, but my body was like, You go ahead and lay down. Go ahead, go ahead and lay down.

SPEAKER_06 2:37

Go lay down right.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

That's the song I heard as I I catch everybody in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

But no, it was it was great, but we it was nice to see everybody gray and and some people a little skinnier, some a little fluffier, but ever, but I'm glad to see as many people in our class that made it.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Um, and just just everybody still alive and still here, and uh you know, and and seem to be doing okay, you know, even if everything ain't perfect, we're here. So that was nice.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

All right, Steve, anything you just been uh nothing much, really just you said what now? Are you legally allowed to tell us? You know, is it something?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Uh oh, I mean no, I definitely uh just definitely count my blessings, you know, definitely even financially, uh certain things that we're uh figuring out right now, you know, definitely God is uh definitely God is good. Definitely God is good. Um so you know, hopefully I'll be able to share that with you guys in the next couple of months. Um, but other than that, just been counting um blessings, you know, at a certain point in time. That's what you got to do to keep it moving, too. So just counting blessings, man.

Two National Domestic Violence Cases

SPEAKER_01 3:54

I done messed around and agreed to a church ministry. Um I am the A V lead of the of the church down the street. Um, I've actually I call it A Z Lead because I'm doing everything from A to Z. I done opened the church, I didn't uh acted as a greeter and turned the church off. Um everyone's asked, are you a deacon or your elder? No, I'm just uh A V. Oh, well, can you do such and such? So now I tell my wife, you know, I'm at work, church, and home. That's the order. Work and home. I hear today. I was there for a while, but um, it's it's all good. We it's been a while since I was uh serving in that capacity, so I'm just learning the inner workings of the church, especially when you have a budget and you need some money. Uh but before we get into it, there is some stuff since it's been a while. I forgot to say some things. Um we say this now before we get blocked. The iron table doesn't own the rights of any music used during segments. We appreciate the talents and the crafts of musicians and only use their music to honor their gifts unless they give it to us, which they have not yet. And then also you can find us on Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and YouTube, which you're probably watching this now. So search for the iron table. The iron table. There's a second iron table. This is the iron table. All right, so I'm gonna lead into this. Um within the past 96 hours, there's been two incidences of domestic violence that um has got gained national attention. Um, first involved a husband and wife, where um the husband used to be the deputy um governor. Lieutenant, uh Lieutenant Governor for the state of Virginia, and uh he was going through a messy divorce and had a court order uh to vacate. Uh they were living in a home together just separately, um, had two teenage kids, and he ultimately um killed her and then killed himself. And then in the house with the kids, yes, in the house with the kids. So and one of the kids had he had to call 911. Um and then you have another incident where eight kids ranging from say one to fourteen is what I believe are read. Um they were killed by their father, and he had also shot the two women between two different homes, and I think another um adolescent. Um, so there's uh believe at least seven confirmed deaths, and might be what I saw, seven, and uh or at least I read that seven of the eight were his own children, and he is since uh also died um after a police chase and um police confrontations. So since those incidents have happened, um online has been on fire. I bet talking about just the the increase in domestic violence, increase in intimate partner violence, um, which isn't just sexual but can be financial, physical, um, emotional, psychological. Um, and so I wanted us to talk about it. Um, you know, sometimes we're laughing and joking, and we might somehow slide something humorous in this, even though this topic is not humorous. So if you if we say something funny, it we're we're not trying to uh minimize the impact, but this is um there's been more cases lately than there has been in previous decades of uh relationships gone bad and one partner killing another. Of course, it's typically more men doing it, um, and now you know, and it used to be where it was just the adults, but now we're seeing it's leaking into the kids too. Um so we need to talk about this. So um I only got two questions today. Um, and I'll start off with this. Um, what are some of the reasons the mexic domestic violence cases have climbed over the past decade?

SPEAKER_04 8:57

I'm gonna ask the question if we think that it's climbed or we just have more awareness because media is a little more prolific. Um, but I I would defer to the mental health professionals that are in the room. It is it that it's actually climbed. Naturally, we got some unique dynamics that we gotta talk through, but um based on like data andor context that those of you who walk people through these things like have climbed.

SPEAKER_00 9:35

I will say I think it's I think it's both. Probably both. Yeah, go ahead, I'll let you go, Steve. I mean, I'll just I'll I would just say that I I think it's it's actually both where you know you have social media making us uh in the internet making us aware of everything that's going on, but also social media and the internet is also um kind of making things a little bit worse, too, because you have so many people have an opinion about this and have an opinion about that, and we're comparing our relationship to this and comparing it to that, and that's bringing so much anxiety and stress, and you know, you don't have enough bandwidth to even deal with your partner anymore because of all these particular stressors that are presented to us on social media. So uh, you know, it at a certain point in time there's gonna be um there's gonna be a blow-up point to where people are doing ra uh irrational things. Um and and also, you know, how how things are being presented, or how things are being presented when it comes to um relationships, and that you know, hey, if somebody does this or somebody does that, this is how you get them back, or if your man or if your woman's not doing this, this is what you do, XYZ, and people are following these advice, this advice, and then but but sometimes these this advice can really get you hurt, or you know, really can get make somebody feel a certain way, and before you know it, we're doing things that we wouldn't normally do because you know it's this whole snowball effect of um you know the internet. Like, you know, I as I've always said on here, I'm a big proponent of the internet was a mistake, you know. It is it is definitely something that is um making things much worse, you know what I mean? As as good as the is as on the internet, I I don't I think for every one good thing that there's on the internet, it's like a hundred things that are bad. You know what I mean? And it's not it's not uh that's just my opinion. But you know, from what I'm seeing, and especially in a lot of couples' therapies, it's just this whole sense of comparison to other things and other couples, and people are not even realizing that what you see on the internet is not even a true reflection of these particular relationships, and they're comparing it back to them, and then that just makes the whole dynamic and anxiety and and expectations something completely different, and before you know it, we're harming each other, too. You know, that's my take on that.

SPEAKER_02 11:49

I agree with the current description of things, but I would like to even go further back years because if we're talking about domestic violence, it used to be part of the fiber, the culture. It was it was what happened. In fact, some people used to blow off sting by being violent, unfortunately. You come home from work, yell at your kids, attack your family. Like you go so the but the what has changed is or what is changing, or what we are noticing, is that it is leading to more severe, uh deadly situations that are becoming more prevalent. And that's just that's with our whole society. Kids have been bullied since the beginning of time, but they weren't shooting up schools. Same thing with, and I'm not making light of domestic violence, but if your wife didn't have dinner ready or you didn't like what she said to you, didn't like how the kids were speaking to you, it was cultural custom to to start popping people or you know, take the belt off and beat everybody, like that type of behavior. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Well, I know we listen in that face in order to support it.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

So it is it's not right, it's not fair, it's not okay. Not condoning it, but domestic violence isn't new. Um, it's it's how we're handling it, the level of the lack of control that we are starting to see with that, like with everything else, like I said. And I think COVID showed us a lot about ourselves. We had to be locked in the house. When people we I'm sorry, I'm I know we're serious today, but listen, I'm but I'm listening, I'm thinking about some of the things I heard, things people said when they were locked in the house, where people they could not stand, or people that would just start getting on their nerves.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

And you know, some things were beginning to talk about it though. See, I think the problem is that people are not when it's something small, when and I say small not to make minimize it, but to say while it is like if you keep leaving the door or the drawer open after you've gone in, then you can just easily close it. Tell your partner, hey, that that's getting to me, you know, after the the fifth time, you know, hey, can you start closing the drawer?

SPEAKER_02 14:13

No, but if I'm educated, when you say that, that sounds like a threat to me. What what you gonna do if I don't? I'm sick of you, I'm I'm sick of talking, sick of you talking to me like you're crazy. Like I just asked you about the drawer.

SPEAKER_00 14:25

We we as a society, we we as a society are getting more and more violent, period, you know what I mean, and not being able to solve problems without violence, you know what I mean. You just hearing the amount of, you know, outside of even just domestic violence, hearing so many instances of, you know, free-ray shootings now. That's that's becoming bigger and bigger to where at a at a one time it wasn't that big, where you know, people are shooting at, you know, and just recently I think somebody had um saw sideswiped a car and they kept on going, and then one car just kind of followed to get the license plate and called the police, but in that following, the the person that sideswiped took out a gun and shot at the other other car just because they were trying to get their license plate. You know what I mean? And it's like these are our this this is our thought process to solve problems now. When things like that weren't that prevalent, you know, maybe 20 or 30 years ago, where people are solving their these little issues with with with with things that have extremely big consequences. Because now that you've done this, you you looking like five, five to ten now. Easy, easy. They can pin in, you know, stolen weapons, um, attempted murder, you know, fleeing and eluding, leave all these things are gonna add up to now you're gonna be sitting tight for probably about a good two decades of your life. And you know, in something small like that, this hasn't been happening. This has been happening more and more because I think us as a society, we are just becoming more more and more violent, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Are we though? I I I yeah, as as like no knock on on that. My mind immediately goes to like right after Adam and Eve get put out of the garden, and then we got we we we yeah, like literally the third human being who was ever born on this earth is the very first case of like like violence, and we're not and we're not talking about yes, yeah. Well well that that we know of, and we're not talking about just to justify, yeah. He killed, he sat on my side, like he just like straight murder dude, and I think that to some extent, I think what we witness is a life outside of the realm that God originally created and designed. We we we get sucked into this vortex, and what I'd be open to a mental health discussion that's rooted in like this Genesis 3 narrative, Genesis 4 narrative, where where Cain is there and we have God asking him questions. Why is it that God is asking him questions? Like God is stupid now, like he doesn't know everything anymore. Yes, and and so this is the the conversation that we need to have because like what what God is doing, it seems like we have an absence of here amongst people. He's he's showing us how to mitigate a tragedy, but he even he is not able to, not that he couldn't, because he's all powerful, he's not controlling them, and so I don't want to go down a rabbit hole, but violence has always been a part of our existence. And when when we don't have the words, I had a student one time who said to me, um, it was actually this, she wrote on a test. So I used to teach Bible class, and I may have mentioned this before, but this student essay question at the end of this this test, you only got points if he wrote paragraphs, because I really wanted them to like take some time and not like that was a whole goal as a teacher, like pontificate, write something out, make some sentences, like sound good. Question was asked why did Cain kill Abel? And um this girl who wasn't the sharpest pencil in the box, she got full credit and extra credit with her one sentence response, and it was because he couldn't kill God, and I said, hmm, wait, I went back and I saw that Abel he didn't do nothing to nobody, he just over there Cain isn't mad at Abel.

SPEAKER_01 19:00

He's mad at God because he can't put his hands on God, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

You could argue that, but then we have this story unfold because he's got all of this pent-up rage that God is trying to help him process, but he doesn't answer the questions. His response to the questions that God has for him about why his face is messed up, why he's upset, if he does what is right, he know God God says don't bless him, sin desires to have you. You must master it, you must master it. We are the masters of our emotions. We we are we have been given dominion, but we don't know how no one has shown us are we really the masters of our emotions?

SPEAKER_01 19:43

We should I would dare say that we who is okay. So so I'm I'm gonna say this. So if I'm if I'm hearing you right, he's asking someone that's emotional, that's enrage questions that would invoke accountability and reason. Yeah, when has that worked?

SPEAKER_04 20:06

I'm gonna say processing, and he does it, you see it modeled in Genesis chapter three. Very first time he sees Adam and Eve, he's not coming with the belt, like I'm gonna get you. He's coming with these questions, and it's not like he's blind, he's not Stevie. One thing about Adam, where are you? No, I'm looking at you. Where are you? Who told you that God knows who said it? What have you done? I watched you do it, but it's it's something about our ability to process, our ability is too process.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Yes, because it is we are we we should be trying to master our emotions because who who else is if we don't have control, who else who's going to? That is a good job. We're looking to master our emotions because again, when somebody gives me the bird on the road when I'm driving and I and I know I got road rage issues, he's not gonna help me calm down. My kids and my wife may not be able to help me calm down. This may have to be an internal fight for me to say, you know what, I said I wasn't gonna do this this week. Let me get control of myself, let me breathe, cry, sigh, whatever I got to do, so I don't jump into the deep in it and harm somebody.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

But in these two instances, people are unaliving themselves before even addressing that. And so you've got online. I mean, even I've in and I'll in my mind it said, if you were gonna do this, why not start with you first? And then see, and then see after you've done yourself first, then try to go to the next person because you won't be able to if you're successful. So it's like, why if you if this person is if why take them out the game and then take yourself when you can just take

SPEAKER_00 22:00

yourself and then they you won't know what they're doing dead don't know anything you know you're not separating them from their children you're not separating them from their family you're separating yourself ultimately from them people are doing that more you're you're thinking you're thinking logically at this point you're talking about people you're thinking you're talking about people that are very emotional and in emotional in an emotional state you're very illogical and doing ill illogical uh things you know what I mean and very and and also very yeah and very selfish things too because at this point you're saying that I'm I don't want to live and I won't take you with me. You know what I mean you're you're being very selfish and very illogical.

Genesis, Anger, And Mastering Emotions

SPEAKER_04 22:42

You really have your your emotions are getting the best of you and I've actually talked to a couple but actually two or three couples this week about that very notion of hey do not make any decision like literally I had to text somebody earlier this morning do not make any decisions right now until we all meet and process this because the decisions that you're about to make right now are very big decisions based upon something that you know warrants some type of reaction but do we really need to go that deep off the uh off the end like that so when we're actually then able to process those particular things then you see like okay you know what I don't need to do that but sometimes when we don't either have that help or we're just again making snap decisions off of emotions we will do these particular selfish things and it's not about that we think it's the right thing or anything like that it's just our emotions overriding common sense and logic most of us don't care about what's right when we're in emotional we'll know we're we'll know we're damn wrong we don't care we don't care yeah we're choosing we're choosing yeah in the game you know you're gonna kick you know you're gonna get kicked out after that flagrant foul but it's just like oh yeah I remember that elbow you you think I forgot nah this right here and and that's part but I do want to be very very focused because it's an important conversation bro and I have as I mentioned to you guys I have had in my personal family this these scenarios play out so I'm very familiar very hypersensitive and I absolutely got PTSD when I hear these stories of somebody who's chosen to unalive the the person who bore them you know um children and then unalive themselves it's it's not something you can wrap your mind around it doesn't make no sense you grammatically incorrect on purpose like it it's I don't want to use certain I don't want to overly spiritualize it but um this concept of steal kill and destroy like that this is what the the the end result of when we choose to to try and and and live and make sense of a life without God where where we're like I'm gonna take this into my own hands where we're so focused on ourselves that we we lose sight of the fact that okay so who's gonna raise this kid like what what what of the issues they're gonna carry with them throughout life like how how is it that that there's nothing about that that makes any sense so how do we get there I I I go back to emotional constipation because if you have the ability to process some of these like thoughts right we talked about processing if you have the ability to sit down with somebody and say you know what I'm really not okay right now. I'm feeling a lot of hurt I'm feeling a lot of rejection I'm feeling a lot of shame I'm feeling like putting naming whatever it is and walking through it processing I invest in my own mental health I invest in coaches because I can't do it by myself I get blocked up I hold things and eventually it starts to stay and it starts to be manifested in my behaviors and my actions but for the grace of God that I haven't jumped off the deep end but when we're dealing with these mental health crises and you got people who just don't know how to don't have the tools don't have the wherewithal don't have a belief in in a higher power they they revert to I'm gonna fix this the best way I know how. And it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

And you know what I'm glad I'm I'm glad that you said that because that is one of the tools I actually gave and that's why I love being able to have my own private practices because to be able to say things like that such as hey you know what there's no theory in the textbook there's no therapist at all that's going to be able to make this or correct this particular scenario right now.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

What you need to do at this point is have a conversation with God who not fix the problem but to have God give you the strength to calm yourself down and not make a decision that is going to affect you for the rest of your life or somebody else's life and I think that the ability of us to be able to be God fearing is having an understanding that you don't just ask God to help you to you know pay your bills or you know cure sickness or whatever like that but when you're in the midst of a crisis it's okay to ask God hey guy show me show me what I need to do let me open my heart or you know help calm my spirit you know I mean that's very very important to be able to say hey guy I can't do this by myself there's nobody else on this earth that's gonna be able to do this I'm gonna need your help I'm gonna need your help can I ask a question because I I agree with what both you and Daddy say and that's to me that's like after the fact or like when I'm already starting to call them but y'all know that there are a lot of men because I worked in the prison I'm I work with them I work with the the DV group when you getting cussed at your hair mooshed like that and called everything but a child of God shut the you you ain't nothing but a dirty I I hate your kids I hate you I hate your life and I'm not saying it's okay I'm not saying it's right but there are men who have tried to leave and the door got blocked they try to go out the other door that got blocked and so they resorted to the extreme and the extreme sometimes intentionally was to harm the person and sometimes it was just to defense mechanism I won't say defend themselves because it went beyond defense. Well sometimes yeah it goes beyond superpower using superpower because you gotta put yeah I gotta put the church finger up on that because like words can be weapons words are weapons and yeah and and and men don't know how to use those those weapons that's not so we use so we use so we use the physical ones so we know how to do I'm not saying it's right but I I agree with prayer but a lot of times in those moments we're not thinking dear God help me help this woman to leave me alone we're thinking let me shut her up let me let me do what I need to do to get out this situation and or we don't even care anymore.

Snap Decisions And Emotional Hijacking

SPEAKER_00 29:35

I know the kids are standing right here but they about I'm about to take yeah we'll be right here right now but do you think that there's a lot of do you think that there's a lot of times in those situations if we really are honest with ourselves God told us a long time ago you you don't you shouldn't even have been in the situation. There's plenty of red flags that I've presented to you and now you're gonna have to deal with this because you did not listen to me at all because I know that I know in my relationships there were definitely red flags that now I see and I probably saw them then that I clearly didn't look I I ignored and I definitely have an understanding like you know what you went through those things because you didn't listen you you thought you clearly saw those red flags and you continue to say hey I still want I'm still gonna do this I'm I'm still gonna do no I'm gonna I'm I'm in love. No God told God has at some point in times told us hey you know what no no not at all but so it like sometimes it is like at a certain point of time where we have we put ourselves in these situations to where these are situations that we did not need to be in because we didn't listen now hold on let me I'm gonna flip that Steve and I want to get your response the same way you said that a man would if God told the man no you don't need to be in this relationship if he said the same he probably said the same to women does that mean that what happens to her we we don't I want to make sure that we're not saying that what the results of what happened to the woman is her fault because she oh no there's there's yeah no there's no there's no fault there is there is there is just you're putting yourself up no there is there there's there's you know fault and putting yourself in a situation is completely different thanks I can't get mad if I decide if I want to get on this motorcycle and ride and ride and ride and I just somebody hits me that's the risk that I'm taking I know that I don't have to do this. You see what I'm saying? When there's certain things where it's just say hey you know what this is very risky and sometimes relationships that we get in are very risky but we ignore those we ignore those risks and we just say hey you know what I think it's worth this risk. But then we get up in arms when that risk comes you know comes alive like yeah it's like a boom like oh wait hell hold oh but no you knew this was you knew this was the issue you knew how he was acting you knew how she was acting XYZ you could have got out of this and so it's not saying that there's a fault but I'm just saying that there's there's things that are always presented to us to get us out of situations. You understand what I'm saying? Before they even get bad or get worse. We choose to again be an emotional creature because oh I'm in love or I'm in lust or whatever it may be we continue to march full esteem ahead. But as time goes on as things get you know we we we start to reveal ourselves more to people after those that that two year um honeymoon phase guess what now we understand who this person is when they and and we still choose to continue to move forward sometimes you know but at a at a certain point in time we have to take accountability for our our own actions and not saying that there's fault but we all have our own accountability that we have to do and put and put some checks and balances for ourselves and be able to say enough is enough. I think me and Keith probably all of us at this point in time have gone through some relationships right now to where I mean I'll be honest with you I told my girl I said look this don't work out between me and you I'm not fighting it okay I'm not gonna fight that hey I'm saying hey it's okay I'm not fighting I'm not going to do that because I'm not going through that anymore. It's not going through the back and forth at all. I just don't have it in me and I know where to go I've been well we talked before hey I know the extent that I went to finding out even though you know certain things that are going on in the relationship the extent that I went to finding out sleuthing detecting this being able to see that and whatnot I'm not doing that no more. It's it it I'm just not doing anymore. So that comes with also emotional regular and I've also even asked God for help hey God keep me from doing that again I don't want to be that type of person but I don't want to exude that type of energy out to get me to a point to where deny I become somebody that I didn't think and I've and I've asked people this in anger management because hey do you think you'll ever put your hands on your wife oh no I never hey say man do you have control of your anger do you have control over your emotions or you feel like you know XY Like yeah I I think somebody maybe sometimes I should I say well you guess what if you don't if you're not emotionally regulated if you're not in control of your anger guess what you're gonna become the person that you never thought that you would become and before you know it you're gonna be like who is that person in anybody that that can happen to anybody all right so before um before we go to this the next question Danny let you say uh I do have a follow-up question for Danny but Steve before this leaves my mind when you say I'm not gonna fight I'm understanding that to be that you're not gonna go overboard you will if there's opportunities for clarity correction you know correct of course you're willing to do that right yeah yeah yeah let me clarif let me clarify that too like if you like no RP you know no let me clarify that like if if yeah if I if if I'm if I catch you cheating or if I know that there's you're doing something that we have both agreed that this is a non-negotiable that these are things that that exceed that that that are we expect each other to hold truth for each other and you blatantly go against that I'm not fighting you because at this point we're grown we know what's going on and I don't want my emotions to get the best of me going upside your head because that's wrong. You know and before you know it guess what we both fight and before you know it something happens and we both end up on the news or before you know it I feel like well you know what I done went this far I'm a k I'm killing everybody. You see what I'm saying where you you see how quickly that can escalate where it's like oh you know what I'm I'm going upside your head and I'm seeing you then you know before you know it you see in red literally I'm not put I'm not willing to put myself at risk or or or my freedom or my sanity or my my contract with God to just say hey I want to be the ver best version of myself so I'm not gonna fight you on that. Because we and first of course guess what we don't have to that's the only that's the one thing that people don't realize when in in relationships you don't have to do this. You don't have to you know at a certain point in time if you feel like you are at a certain point where you are thinking about killing somebody you don't have to be in that relationship and I'm pretty sure God I mean this is just me if we're talking about a loving God God's not going to damn you to hell because you walked away from a situation that you would have potentially killed everybody with you not and if you're gonna be okay that's a conversation between you and God and just say hey God I didn't want to murder you know but again at at a certain point in time we have to hold ourselves accountable for being for it being okay to walk away and I know that sometimes could be hard because of investments and in things where we thought things were going to be XYZ but again we have to have we we got to have some emotional regulation in you know you could either be here not be here or be behind bars.

Red Flags, Accountability, And Walking Away

Safe Spaces For Men To Process

SPEAKER_04 37:01

It's one of the two or three Danny I think you were about to say something before I I was gonna say we we we by human nature are going to express when there's something that ails us and and if we do not express with words it will be expressed in other means that that can be more destructive and this is why as men we must advocate to create safe spaces where where men can just be real and where it's not even about accountability it's about accessibility where where hey this is what's going on with me this is where I am I'm I'm not good right now I I need I need to process this because at the alternative is it's a volcano it's waiting to erupt waiting to explode and it's it's not about I think we we we touched on some things that were kind of leading into this idea about self-control and yes I do believe that we can control ourselves but it gets to a point where have you ever had diarrhea out the day imagine imagine the emotional equivalent of that we can the the restroom is a space where people can come and sit and get that out we don't have enough spaces I'm sorry for the rapic individual but no I don't know you 100 you're 100 you're 100% right you're 100% right but here's the thing what happens what happens when we all we we know we know the feeling like okay I better not let that out because I know that that that feels a little hot but okay I can make it I can I I can make it no no but we're just like okay I can make it okay I can go down the store I can go down the street I can make it I can make it bruh what happens when we don't go to the bathroom and we feel like we can make it without going to the bathroom and it ends badly I I got I got this event that that I'm doing called unlock we're doing the the the third installment this next next Sunday um and I invite men to come and participate in that but I asked a question and um keep was there um I I said have you ever had skin marks on your draws let me just say let me put it this way I've never met a man or or women are more hesitant to admit it worse but it was a safe space that we we we had a safe space and each of the men that was in the room was like yeah bro I was saying but you know I have you can't hold certain things aren't meant to be held in like exact you cannot you would be a fool before you take a 12 hour road trip exactly to Florida I'm gonna hold this I'm gonna hold this diarrhea in and guess what in as much as you flinch in as much as you clinch guess what it's still gonna seep up it's gonna still seep through and once it gets started avalanche you can't flood it absolutely but education here's where information and and and education is important us us being able to create spaces and and if this was your intention in in asking these questions I second it I I third it I fourth it because we've got to get to the point we're having conversations to say hey guys like there are seasons of life when you're not going to be able to handle the emotional state that you're in when you're feeling this when you're going down this rabbit hole when when you have this cloud surrounding when you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel that is not the time to grab as many fig leaves as you can and go and hide in a corner in isolation not talk about what's going on because then we end up with the explosion and the damage that everyone now has to deal with and I mean I know what it's like to to to just try as a family member to to wrap your mind around how, why like why wouldn't you come and talk to any person that's here why would you feel like you have to hold on to this and make this permanent decision because of this temporary feeling that you have I'm I'm glad you said that because I wanted to we we only I only want to spend maybe you know two three minutes and this is your what you've experienced but as a family member of you know having experienced that you know your own family without going into great detail if you could just share just like some of the thoughts that you had and you did say that it was like this past story with the Fairfax family that it was uh kind of re triggering. So if you can just share real quick because I think so you know that's also missed you know what does the family that's left behind what are they how are they processing it if if there's ever something that can happen that leaves you with absolutely zero answers and zero resolve zero ability to comprehend it's this there's no there's no christianese that can put a band-aid on on this wound um even when someone leaves information or a note behind or explanation it still doesn't answer it still doesn't heal it still doesn't resolve it still it just leaves more questions sometimes it was a video we we got left the video I don't know if I told you we watched it I remember um and because I I see a young man occasionally and I mean he's very smart very I mean he's gifted he's talented in some IT areas I didn't see him do some stuff and I'm like wow genius but I mean like it's well seeing him like as he's growing and maturing does that like even even is that a triggering moment too I mean you it's it's inseparable you you have you have aspects of this bright kid and and the kid is literally a genius I can only imagine what how how you know I you you can't really um recreate uh this utopia when things happen but um you you do you can't help but wonder you're left with questions That have no answers. And um, the probably one of the most significant things that I've been able to realize, because even while going through dark seasons of my own life, because I've lived through that experience, um, and and I can understand when people have ideations, and there's not a person in the Bible who did not, in some to some capacity, just like have a Jonah moment where it's just like I might as well just not be here no more. I mean it just gets a little twisted when you like, let me take somebody else out first before I go. That therein lies what I believe to be a spiritual issue. My thought, my worldview. But there's so many questions that are left unanswered. Um, you you individually just wish you could have, man, if if I could only have just had a conversation, if I only, man, I I would have been the one. I I would have you you you can't have something like that happen and not wonder if there's something else that you could have done. And when when you're left with these pieces, at the end of the day, you did the best with what it is you had in in that season at that time. But um yeah, I just want to normalize if we can the fact that we have some pretty crappy thoughts, some pretty crappy situations. And um as as men, we need to have space, we need to have the equivalent of an emotional port-a-potty where we can just hold space for for for other if we don't have to solve it.

SPEAKER_05 45:58

Sometimes it's just no, sometimes yeah, it's not even about solving it, just just purging, it's getting it out, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

Because after, yeah, you you know what there have been times I don't like porta potties. I'm gonna be very honest. But when you don't have any other options, oh that porta potty is like a whoo that that wake listen here.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

All right, so I want to get this this this question in because we we run in on bedtime. All right, so what are some of the sign warning signs that we can offer to women to let them know their significant other is struggling to help reduce these crimes of passion? There's gotta be some warning signs. We we've talked about flags, amber flags. You know, some people used to say, well, if you have if they have an activity, if they like to go bowling and they did it three times a week, and then all of a sudden they just go to zero for a month or two or three, and just like I don't want to do it no more. Is that a sign? Is it are they yelling more? I mean, this what yeah, for those that have talked to men who are in jail for these types of crimes, you know, what what did they say for those that have seen others in their relationship just watch from the sideline like man? That's a flag. That's a flag.

SPEAKER_00 47:31

You're saying crime, you're saying crimes of passion as if they doing something wrong and now they're getting caught. Is that what you're saying? When you talk about when it's when I think of crime of passion, okay.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

So I when I I didn't want to keep saying domestic violence, you know, just okay, trying to get a different term, but where you have these men that are physically hurting women and children.

SPEAKER_02 48:02

Sometimes it may not be any signs. Sometimes there's no sign. I will say this, because this is also part of my well, no, I will say this. Sometimes when we go through a lot of changes, and I wasn't gonna talk about this later, but um, as men, we need to learn how to lose. It's not always gonna be good, it's not always gonna be great, but when we are in a season of loss, because we don't we lack the vocabulary to express how we feel, we physically will act out. And even when people are coming to help us, which is sometimes our mothers or the women in our lives, I'll say the women in our lives, we will we will react in a way that's vital. And sometimes the children, sometimes we take things away from others because things we feel like things are being taken away from us. So what I remember is that the guy in Virginia, he he I heard he had also lost an election or two.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

So yeah, so he originally the first incident was he was trying to be the like the state's attorney. Um didn't win, but they said he recovered, he was drinking excessively, recovered, you know, allegedly, you know, and then the last thing was he was as the lieutenant governor, um, he was charged with uh two women came forward and said that he sexually assaulted them, uh raped them. Um and so while vacate, I think he stayed in that for, but that helped hurt his uh trajectory.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Oh, yeah, ain't no question. You get two charges like that, you you you it's gonna hurt you, but and but that's just it, life isn't over. You may not be what you thought you were going to be, but like you're gonna have to find another road, another path, or God may take you another way to get to where you're gonna be. But harming your family, harming yourself is not the answer. That's you definitely do not have the results that you were looking for if you do this. So a lot of times we lose jobs, we get kicked out of school, we we mess up our marriages. Life isn't over.

SPEAKER_05 50:05

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

And I don't think we get that in that moment we're going through it. And I trust me, when you thought you were supposed to get married or thought you were supposed to get that job and work your way all the way up to the top of each ego, and it doesn't happen, the first thing we like, we are in an most times we are emotional wrecks because again, we talked about this before, our identity is in that, and that one thing that we're doing. So when it's no longer accessible, where that emotional clarity is gone. So if we could just get through that, like you said, get through that stage, and we have people helping us work our way through, it puts us in a better place where we can see signs because losing jobs are signs. Um, not doing regular activities are signs, um, irritability, drinking, drug abuse, sex, gambling, all these are signs of a of a problem that we are losing self a lot of times.

SPEAKER_04 50:56

So I was just gonna add isolation.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Isolation, food, that's that's a big one. Isolation is a big one. So once we start doing all these things, a lot of times, yes, it can result in because a lot of times when we're isolating, a lot of times, especially being on social media more in these rooms where they're feeding the negative that negative spirit. Where they're there, so there's a lot of things that that can be signs, but when we are going through these losing seasons and we feel empty or don't feel like ourselves, we got to break the habit of the of isolating, stalking. And we got to lick our wounds and heal, but we got to find a healthier way to do that so that we don't harm ourselves. We don't harm people in our lives that we love, even if they don't want to be married to us anymore. It didn't make sense. A lot of times we don't want them to go because I don't want somebody else to have you. That's what I've heard other people say. If I can't have them, because I've heard, you know, if I can't have her, I don't want anybody else to have her. But if she again by taking her life, you take a and who do your kids have neither of you now. So it's better to allow her to leave. And it's gonna hurt, and guess what? You're gonna rebound because in about in about six months to a year, you're gonna be. I told him there's another case. So you're gonna be dragging somebody in here wanting trying to introduce in your new program. And I'll be like, Well, I thought you would never love again.

What Families Live With Afterward

SPEAKER_04 52:19

I did say that that that part, all of that. Go ahead. No, but no, I I was gonna jump in and say when when 9-11, was it 9-11? No, no, no, it was the crash of 2008. When the crash of 2008 happened, there were there were stories of many executives who were unaliving themselves, and it was it was a trend, it was insane, all because their net worth. What what's interesting to me is that if you look at what the market has done since then, you will find that it has exponentially compounded, it did more than rebound, it doubled, tripled, whatever their net worth was then in that moment, when those people chose to unalive them, unalive themselves. Had they just had a different philosophy and held on, had they reached out for help, had they not made a permanent decision because of a temporary condition, their net worth would have been quadrupled. It would have been, I don't know the exact statistics, but the the reality is, like Keith pointed out, people think this is the end. This is the end, this is as bad as it gets. I can't go on from this, I'll never recover. When in actuality, that's the biggest lie. That's a lie from the pit of hell. Pit of hell, devil himself said that that that one right there, but it's so believable in this moment where there's nothing but darkness, and and this is why you gotta have another third party who can see the back of your head who may have may have a telescope to say, hey, that line where the ocean seems to touch the sky, that's actually not the end, it's just the end of what you can see. There's so much more out there.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

What I love that third party that asks you the same questions that God asked, is this the end?

SPEAKER_00 54:18

Yeah, period. And that's and that and that's and that's that's crucial. That is crucial to where though, because you can't see it.

SPEAKER_04 54:27

You can't see it, you can't see it, you can't see it. Steve, I'm I'm gonna hand it off to you, but when you can't see it, it's just like yo, borrow my hope. I can see it. I can see here here's why. Just borrow this.

Warning Signs Loved Ones Can Notice

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Hold on. It's funny. It's funny that you guys are bringing this up because it's it's bringing into notion of uh a public uh situation that's going on with uh the former head coach of uh Michigan University football team. Right. Um and I and I say that because it you know it's it's imperative that we have an understanding that yes, um we as men or we as we we as human beings have a duty to definitely seek help, but also loved ones, family members, whoever it may be, we have a duty to if we say we're gonna be there, stand be able to ask questions, be able to check in with each other. Um one of the things that when they just did his sentencing, I think they uh dropped everything, he's getting probation, X, Y, and Z, but you know, he was on the verge of really I mean, he was crashing out. You know, you know, he was going over the girl's house and getting arrested and crying and losing, you know, this top job and in front of everybody, all these particular things, yes, due to his fault. But one of the things that the judge said, and then he even said in his closing uh statement to uh people is that he said that he wouldn't be there right now if it wasn't for his wife standing by him even through all of this mess. Even the judge said, Hey, the reason why you're going on probation is because your wife pleaded with us to, you know, say, hey, he's a good person, X, Y, and Z. So a lot of times it's not to see just the warning signs, but also just to be able to check in on people and say, hey, I know these things are going on in your life or whatnot. What's up? What are you, how are you feeling? What are you doing? What do you need me to do? I'm gonna I and just have the notion of saying, hey, I know you kind of really messed up. I got I'm I'm gonna stand behind you. I got your back. I got this, I got, and I know sometimes that can be very hard, but even on the instance of not even just talking about domestic violence and just even just family members in general, sometimes it it it's it's our duty to check in on people. Hell, not even just family members, just as friends. You know, when we're when we see, like just us four, we see each other, we just know something's going, hey, how you feeling about that? Are you hey, what you need from me? Are you good? Sometimes that in of itself is enough to uh to uh let us know we're not in this by ourselves because I truly believe a lot of times these people offering themselves and offering other people, they feel like I'm by myself. So what's the point? What's the point? So to be able to remedy that is to be able to know and be able to tell somebody no, you're not by yourself. What's going on? How are you feeling? I got you, you're not alone. And guess what? It's not just me. We got all these other people. Hey, whoever you need, you know, and that's what gets people through a lot of times as I would say, even for myself, I don't know how you, Keith, and you and Danny feel or whatnot. And Brandon, Brian, I'm hoping you never have to go through this, but going through a divorce, I don't think that I would have gotten through or been at this place that I'm at right now if it wasn't the help for having other people to say, hey, even if you don't want to, just know I got your back. I'm with I I, you know, if you want to talk or whatever it may be. And that made a hell of a difference than just navigating it by yourself. Imagine if we had to navigate that our situations by ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

Imagine on the news.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

Yeah. In the morgue. In the morgue. No, no, yeah, we probably wouldn't because I ain't going to jail. We already learned.

SPEAKER_05 58:11

Yeah. I ain't going to jail.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

No, we we we we would not be here today without the supports. That's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

That's one of the things we keep. This is why we're here. Um, and we're gonna start going live. There's people that need to communicate. Um, there's people that need to ask questions, we need to be able to give them some on-the-ground resources uh because it's happening more and more, and it's not just one person. We're now it's in the family's legacy, it's a crisis. Yeah, this is a pandemic level event. Um all right, fellas. You know, we still like to give out our parting words or final thoughts. I don't I don't really have any. I I tell you, I can't sum anything up. Normally I have some nice words. Uh I've heard porta potties, you know, now I'm gonna look at potties, diarrhea. Diarrhea.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

Diarrhea, porta potty, um, I I'll I'll I'll go. Um, parting words because I already kind of led to mine. We're we will have seasons where we are losing. We are not doing well. It is not going like we thought it's go it would go. Um, we have to learn to lose with the understanding that a loss doesn't mean we are losers. A loss doesn't mean that it is the end. Um that those are sometimes those are indications that we need to get better and we need to ask for help. So um it's it's temporary. Uh, even when you lose our job, we lose our way, you lose your identity, it's temporary. Um, but getting the help to get back on track, there's help out there. So don't give up. Don't resort to eat, don't resort to hurting yourself, harming yourself or those around you, um, like a lot of us tend to do. Um, there are better ways to handle anger. There's better ways to handle just overall emotion. Um, I think we still, as men, sometimes we're crashing out more, but and not in a healthy way where it's stable and it's helping our ourselves. It's just yelling. It's not even therapeutic, even is yet sometimes. And that's okay, but it but come to a group and let us help you turn that into a therapeutic experience where you're getting better from getting it out. So that's that's all I got. I'm I learn we'll learn how to lose knowing that it is not the end. And a lot of times it's it's how you get that winning franchise. You gotta have that terrible team first, so you can get some help.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:44

That's all I got. Uh I'll just I'll end it with uh for me, uh just stating, be able to check on your people. You know what I mean? Sometimes it's it's just a matter of even just picking up the phone or sending a text message, just saying, hey, how you doing? You know what I mean? A lot of times, and this works for me, not really asking what's wrong. Just say, hey, what's what's on your mind? What's going on in your world? You know what I mean? Because a lot of times, even for us as men are just saying, you know, and some women that are very independent, they're they're not that that's a that's an omission of you can't handle this, or you are something's wrong with me. That you're asking what's wrong. It's something and we can navigate that by just saying, hey, what's going on? What's what's what you're thinking about? What's you what's on your mind? And that breaks down so and you you have no idea how much that can mean to somebody that they just have sometimes just astounding more. They're not really looking for solutions, they just need to get it, get it out, you know, relieve, or you know, so I I'll just say this, just you know, please, people, just check on your people or just ask of them, you know, what's on their mind or how they're doing, you know. It doesn't always have to mean that something's wrong, but just the fact that having getting somebody to understand that they're not alone in this world, even regardless of what situation that's going on, you know. So just start practicing that, people.

Losing Seasons Are Not The End

SPEAKER_04 1:02:06

Hmm, yeah, that's good. I I'll just say that um I'll just re-echo the fact that one of the biggest it's there's an enemy walking around like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. And we see over and over in scripture, he gets us to do his dirty work, he wants us to be the Taliban suicide bomber who will detonate ourselves, and the shrapnel will get everybody else around. It's never too late. That is a lie from the pit of hell. It's never too late. And um, last thing that I'll say is I I'm convicted, I haven't been walking in obedience. The Lord gave me uh an idea to help people learn how to hold space for each other, and I'm gonna be starting it this week. Right now, I have the the the banner that it's gonna fall under that might change, but as of right now, it's um I just have this concept of fellowship, but I put the word abundant in front of it, but like the abundant fellowship, but just and and it's it's very simple, it's simply just a place where people can just come and just check in, learn how to help each other just walk with the through the mess. We're gonna have difficult days. There's not every day that we'll see light at the end of the tunnel, and that doesn't mean that that there's anything wrong with you, it just means that hey, I need to get out of isolation, I need to invite someone in this space so that they can hold my hand while we walk in the darkness, and I can get through this because we're never ever alone. Here's here's how I'm the last thing I'm gonna say is this here's how you know you're never alone. At your funeral, are there gonna be people there? Are they gonna be crying? Are they gonna be messed up? Or are they gonna just oh yeah, bro? Yeah, that dude. No, there are people right now, the same people who would be there grieving you are the ones who will be there supporting you in this moment, helping you through what seems unimaginable, which seems like you like there's no remedy, and so don't give up, don't give in, even if you can't see light at the end of the tunnel. It's okay to not be okay, but it's not okay to stay that way alone in isolation. That is a recipe for disaster, and he'll get you to start believing that lie that it's too late, and you might as well give up. That is a lie from the pit of hell. I said it three times, I'm gonna say it one more time. It's a lie from the pit of hell. Yes, sir. I'm gonna say from where pit of hell from the pit of hell, devil himself.

Final Thoughts And Share The Show

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Well, fellas, you know, just thank you. Um, I noticed that you know in life we're all like pressure cookers. There's a little release valve. I hope that this moment has um that you've heard from us will give you the the wherewithal to release some of that tension because if not, you will explode. Pressure is meant to bust pipes, but there are release valves. And my last thing, uh, there's a lot of people, and I've we we've with our buzz sprout audio, um, a lot of people have been uh listening. We've reached over 2500 uh downloads, but we can reach much more if you're willing to share. And I thought I wasn't gonna be begging like a Jodicey song or snap. Closing my eyes because I'm not trying to see this. But please, please, if share this with someone, even if you don't think that they are going through something, just the fact that you're hearing four brothers talking about vulnerability in a way that leads to strength, talking about it so that it becomes the norm. Talking about it so that others can see that you can talk about it and you don't feel or look less than. Because we're carrying weight, we're acknowledging that you're we're carrying weight, we're carrying things that our forefathers may not have had to carry in the same way. And while they toughed it out, or what we thought was toughing it out, they were expressing it in various places in various ways, both constructive and then non-constructive ways. We're not trying to lose the identity of manhood, of um, especially in our black and brown communities, but just overall manhood by holding on, exploding, and not being around to pick up the pieces and not learning the lessons. So share this, send the audio. We're gonna start going live, we're gonna be taking questions, we're going to be trying to put a positive thumbprint on various topics and situations because I know I'm tired. I'm tired of reading about innocent people losing their life because someone felt like they were by themselves and they didn't have a platform or something in order to release that tension. We're not here promising that we're going to make things better, that we have the answers. But we've all been through something, we've all had a story to share, and the constant theme is to talk to somebody to release that tension. So share this with someone who you who you think is strong, someone that you know is strong, because it's usually those strongest people that are carrying the weight, and one additional feather, one additional straw will break them. We don't want to see anyone else broken because Satan is coming after the head of the home because he knows if he gets that, the rest of the house will crumble. So I'm Bryant. I've got my brothers Keith, Danny, and Steve. Please, please, please, talk to somebody. All right, it's the iron table where iron sharpened iron, so should men sharpen men. We'll see you next time. Peace.