The Iron Table
The Iron Table
Why Strength Is Not Control And Silence Is Not Weakness
Start with the correction. That’s how trust is built—and how this conversation finds its spine. From there we face a brutal story out of Chicago: kids attacking a pregnant mother while her son tried to shield her. We talk about the collapse of a neighborhood code that once protected elders and parents, and whether the reflexive “Where are the fathers?” helps or hides the deeper problems. Presence matters, but presence is not just a body in a house; it’s boundaries, guidance, and the courage to say no when the internet says yes.
We press into what healthy manhood looks like under pressure. Leadership is not domination; many men want peace, not power. Meekness is not weakness—calm is a choice, and restraint is strength. We share how men are punished for both standing firm and staying quiet, and how that double-bind can turn love into war. We also unpack provision as more than money. One of us chased a “pay it all” script until it almost broke him. The fix wasn’t a rigid 50/50; it was fairness matched to strengths, season by season, with respect replacing comparison to mom or dad.
Then we ask when “figuring it out” ends and foundational responsibility begins. If people depend on you, your dream may need a pause—not a funeral. Stabilize, then rebuild with margin. We challenge the rise of consequence-free childhoods and how social media rewards attention over character. Consequences introduced early, with love, become guardrails later. Finally, we revisit success in a world where college isn’t a guarantee, predatory schools sold dead ends, trades are thriving, and content creation is real but unforgiving. The path is wider now, but discipline still wins.
Pull up a chair at The Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron. If this conversation moved you, share it with a friend, hit follow, and leave a quick review with one takeaway you’ll practice this week. Your voice helps more people find the table.
Welcome to the Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men. I'm your host, Bryant, and I'm joined by my boys Keith, Danny, and Steve. We are bringing you truth with a side of humor, loaded with accountability and thought. We now bring you to our program already in progress. All right. Welcome to the Iron Table where Iron Sharpens show. Should men sharpen men? It has been a minute since we've been on there, but let's get this housekeeping stuff out the way because it's almost my bedtime. Um, you can find it on uh YouTube since you're watching this now and also on our Buzz Sprouts page. It can be found Amazon Music, I think still. Uh who knows? Uh Apple Podcasts and all other major podcasting stations. And of course, we don't own anything um except for the clothes that are on our back, but the music that we use it to honor uh those great uh musicians, and we appreciate their talents and crafts. And this is the only way we can get played overseas. Um look, we lost Jones, but he'll be back soon. All right. Um, it has been a minute, and yeah, uh I think the last time we were able to meet up was in September, so we took all of October off. We we needed that break. Um we needed it. Oh, there's Jones somewhere out in the community doing what he did. He is out in the community.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sick and tired of these. Get me out of this country. Sorry. I told y'all.
SPEAKER_00:I told y'all.
SPEAKER_04:God, gang and all that.
unknown:All right.
SPEAKER_02:That's my that's one of my favorite all-time videos ever created on this planet. That was authentic there, too. It was authentic. Could be out of this country.
SPEAKER_03:Oh my goodness. It's been a it's been a minute, so we'll just go a quick round robin, see how we've been maintaining for the past uh six weeks. I think it's been about six, seven weeks since we got together. So um, and then I got two updates uh since our last our last podcast. In Iron Table, we like to correct correct things. Um said some stuff that was some that was untrue.
SPEAKER_01:But you know, so you might as well get that out of the way now, bro.
SPEAKER_02:Right, just go ahead, just go ahead. We ain't gotta wait for that. Go ahead, get go ahead. All right, so I was I was partially right.
SPEAKER_03:During our last recording, um, which was entitled, you know, walking, I think walking while black or or something, I shared a story um because the information that I had at that time was real and revident, relevant, not revident, relevant. Um, but I was walking at work, and apparently there was a a lady that had expressed concern of me walking, and I shared it with my co-worker, shared it here on the table, brought it to the live community, and I was under the impression that this person was uh fair skinned. This person was white. Well, Steve said offline, he said that I'm like, nah, man, it's this person's white, you know. But I was like, we shall overcome, we move forward, you know, try to. Well, that was an untruth. I didn't know it, but once I found out, I was like, we gotta come to the table. Um, it was indeed a sister who had an issue with me walking. And um, I don't know this person. We've never had any interaction in any part of my federal life. Um, where I had to walk, this person, I mean, it's in the hallway. So you gotta, if you're in cubicles, you gotta walk past cubicles to get to your own. Um, I do believe based on that um her feeling, she closed the elevator on me when it was time to leave. But you know, hey, yeah, that's that's beside the point. But here at the Iron Table, we like to we acknowledge when we were wrong, or in this case when I was wrong, we acknowledge when Steve was right, because he said that person does not exist. Um I have to apologize on behalf of Mr. Jones because he was ready to I'm still ready.
SPEAKER_02:I'm still I'm still ready.
SPEAKER_03:And luckily, Mr. Williams was not around when this story went down. So so that's that's that. Um, and then uh second thing is uh I sent a video around and I want to kind of get uh get your take on it before we get into uh message for today. So in Chicago, there is a video that circulated with a a woman who was trying to shield her child as I believe it was fourth and fifth graders were jumping, and it wasn't just like male um female. Um and of course the communities out and with I think they were upset with the they were teasing the young boys there was bullying about the mom who has a sickle cell. Um that affects her walk, it affects her talk. I watched one video where they were kind of um what is it uh shielding faces because it was minors, but then I saw the the real video, and when I saw that it was young ladies who started it, that the mother was pregnant, and that she and that the young man who was being bullied was shielding the monk while they were getting hit, and then they got dragged down to the ground and was getting stomped on. There was uh someone in the community that said, Hey, you know, it's these fathers need to step up, where the dads. And I'm like, you know, it can't be uh just put on the dads. I I agree that fathers should be, you know, if you have a kid be present, fine with that. But there's a lot of people our age and older that grew up in um single parent homes where it was just moms, and none of us, we knew not to, we never thought that somebody would jump a mom in the presence of their child. Like there was a code, but now there's no code. So I want to get y'all's opinion on like is where where are we going with this? Because I thought there was nothing shocking, you know, back in the day during you know, the war on drugs and you know, crime crack epidemic, people would, you know, hurt family members, but you wouldn't you wouldn't jump on a mom, someone that's pregnant. Um you wouldn't do that. And to find out that it's kids, 11, 12, younger, they're doing these things. Come on, people. What are we doing? What are we doing? I was shocked. So I'm gonna kind of get y'all take on that before we get into you know, as a man, do how do you feel when someone says a father needs to be a father needs to be present?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I think we we we know that you know there's a need for uh fathers in the in the home and the lives of their children, and there's all kinds of statistics that go to show that um those who participate in violent crimes by and large almost universally have an absentee father. Um and that is like that's not really up for debate. There's a lot of research that goes behind that, especially when you start getting into the more violent the crime, usually the more um traumatic, traumatized the child. And you know, we know that we need fathers, we know that it impacts them. We also know that the success of those single parent uh homes that are are led by the father have uh some of the benefits of the two-parent homes, whereas not that's not the case with those who are led by single parent mothers. Um which no disrespect because raised by a single mama, raised by single mamas, raised by single mamas, but it is what it is. There's a difference that um single fathers, there's a difference that fathers, whether single or married, have on the uh the development, the stability of a child that will prevent them, serve as a stopgap, a tourniquet, if you will, on this host of evil that we're seeing just run running just crazy in the world. That's my two cents.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:I definitely agree. You know, it's one thing to say, you know, not only where is the father, but then say, Oh, we need fathers in the household and whatnot, but man, what are we promoting to include men in the household? You know, I'm just saying, you know, media, you know, whatever. Um, it just seems like so much is um, especially uh the black man in the black family, you know, it it it we're rarely seen in the uh in media, you know, always together, you know. Um and I think it's uh it's definitely something that is not uh shown a lot, you know, as far as where's where's the father, where's the where's the daddy, even just in in like news segments, you know, not even just this, but just just periods. You know, a lot of times we're um you know, certain things are happening and whatnot, I'm always asking, well, where's the father? Where's the daddy? Where what what's going on? Why is it just one parent speaking on this issue um with this particular child or this particular incident? It's always just one person. So a lot of times, you know, we're never shown that this could be something different. Um, and that's not always the case, but after a while, it's like you know, it it's not normal anymore to always see, you know, um a two-parent um household for the black fat.
SPEAKER_03:So does not does a father not being home give ease. Oh, wait. Let me ask a question. How do we know that the fathers weren't present? We don't. It was just I would say from what I've heard is that most of the responses have been like the mother saying, Well, that's a child, you know how kids act, and you know because and the reason I the reason I ask is because I agree with everything everybody said.
SPEAKER_02:I agree that when parents are allowed to parent their children, and it makes a difference. Um, because you could most times you can check your child like nobody else. So you have the ability to come in and really deal with certain things like nobody else. But there are times that there are children who were quote unquote raised right, but still make bad decisions. And Steve, we worked in the juvenile justice system. So we saw a lot of kids where you saw somebody's parents like, why are you here? Why are you here? You got both parents. You got you had structure, you had rules, you had you had somebody teaching you right from wrong. Why are you here?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:There's always an anomaly, you know. It is always you you you can't even, I think it would be good to even define what absentee father even means, because you can have a father in the home who ain't really there. Correct. That is correct.
SPEAKER_03:And so you might have a father that wants to be there, but it's been set up where he can't.
SPEAKER_01:Now all of the above. And so all the above. Yeah, all of that affects the development.
SPEAKER_02:So the real yeah. So the reality is what we saw is that we we saw somebody who was unhinged, unregulated, didn't chose not to control themselves or herself in this case. And now she has made national news in a way, probably regret more than likely she and her family regret. So now uh I guess so. What is what is it that we should learn from this?
SPEAKER_03:So I remember growing up. I mean, it wasn't I I did have a my father was home. And you can say present, not present, you know, he was home. But there were other men in my environment that filled in the gap. So if the mom didn't rock with the dad, there was other men. Who will kill you?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, right, literally. Literally. But you said what? Like we weren't allowed to, we weren't allowed to curses for the kids or old people, like we we weren't allowed to go to certain neighborhoods without hearing feet. Like, what y'all doing around here? Yeah, nah, y'all need to go back. Like there were there were rules to this thing, and all of that is gone. And it was the men who held us accountable, I will say, after that period where a lot of us in our culture were either taken out of the homes in the 70s or the the the whole jail pipe, was it uh school to prison pipeline, those have affected our community still because we don't have those that regulation. My uncles were locked up, grandpas were locked up, dads locked up, great-grandfathers locked up. So there's a lot of because think about it, even in those times, what did my a lot of the moms say, wait till your dad gets home? Because those were the disciplinarians. Didn't so a lot of times she would fuss chew you out. She might beat you, she might die, but when your dad get home, ooh, I'm telling. Because he he was gonna make sure you you finally under you fully understood it.
SPEAKER_03:So give it well given the structure now. I mean, what what can you know young fathers or you know, fathers of young people do now, given that that structure or the the leverage that we used to have, we no longer have it. If you you can't seriously discipline you um because there's the you know, somebody might report if the kid looks like they've been hurt. You got mandated reporting, um, you've got videotapes now. You got well, not videotapes, that's dating myself. You mean you got uh digital copies, you know, belts used to fly off the shelf. Now we just got elastic pants. What what what do you what can a father do? Or what can a parent do? Because it's not just I think that saying that the father's not in the home doesn't give beat them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was gonna say even even that Ma was being attacked, I I feel like she was not just in her legal right. A pregnant woman standing with these kids, you had you better two-piece them kids. That's me. That's me. I I fight kids, I fight kids. I tell my I tell kids all of that. I ain't that I ain't that much taller than y'all. I fight you. Some of y'all taller than me. I fight you like you, bro. So I don't, I mean, I get it. It it does open. I mean, she's pregnant. I feel like she could have, even if it's Mason little girl, I don't know. That's sounds horrible, but you can't stand it.
SPEAKER_00:These kids are have these kids out of everything of what was going on.
SPEAKER_03:All I know is that the story was that um they had been bullying the young, the the mother's son um throughout, like for they say allegedly like two years, and that they have reported it. Yeah, because uh they're talking about the mother's speech pattern, you know, the way she's walking. Um, I think they had talked about she might have been wearing crocs or something like that. And I don't want to like in they might have said like she was ashy. You know, these kids are just saying stuff, and they they are getting her.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, back in the day when someone said, I was gonna say, I was gonna say, back in the day, all of that was allowed to be on the table.
SPEAKER_03:Sure was. But one of the things that wasn't was that you did not you a kid would not get jumped in front of their parents. Yeah, that's not on the table. Now that take it past that and go after the parent, too. And they had and she had another child who was just standing inside, just crying.
SPEAKER_00:And then it's a whole different breed of the kids now, man. And again, I'm going back to you know, not only just uh media consumption, internet consumption, and uh our our our want to get a like or get a view or go viral, all those particular things are very um influential in in the decisions that kids are making or whatnot, but just the inability to give kids consequences now is is what's creating this whole entire new human being.
SPEAKER_02:What are those? What are those, Steve? Steve, what are those?
SPEAKER_00:No, they'll they'll find out what consequence is, and that's why I had to tell a lot of people look, you know, it's gonna take life, it's gonna take life um getting in your behind you for you to really understand. Oh, I can't do what I used to do when I was 17. Now I'm 18. I can't curse the teacher out in college because guess what? It gets me kicked out. Oh, I can't cuss this teacher. You're right, but like I said, this is a whole different type of human being now that they have to, they have to learn by consequence at this point in time because nobody is everybody is sheltering to uh these kids' behaviors now to where they can just get away with whatever, but then it's like a culture shock when they get to be 18. Oh, I can't do this, I can't do that. We've created these soft kids that get away with literally murder, but then when they turn 18, they don't even know how to deal with life at all. You know, so I I'm kind of scared to see what's gonna, you know, what these children, when they become adults, how they're going to just even deal with life. Because then they're still growing, they they've they've entered a world with the internet, with social media, and then they're still gonna have to deal with life with social media. We kind of grew up without social media, so we kind of know how to get by just being with yourself. That that these these kids aren't able to do that right now, you know. So that's really it it's scary at this point. To me, it's really scary.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um to I work with these kids. I'm gonna tell y'all now. Just turn tell your kids no at an early age, early age. Sooner the better. Some consequences, because if they haven't experienced anything until they get 18, it could just take that one incident and you talking to your child through a glass door or you leaning over uh a pile of dirt.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I remind most parents, most most consequences, the earlier they are, the more repair, the more you're able to repair or fix it. So, like in in elementary school, the your the consequences aren't the same as high school. So, because high school normally the anti goes up and it gets it gets worse. Um certain things become concrete. So a lot of times the earlier that they make these mistakes have a consequence. And it's hard because sometimes I know some parents feel like they don't want to punish the children, or I don't want to I don't want to take things away from him or her. It makes me sad, but in prison they take everything. Everything. Yep. Somebody's gonna take it. Somebody gonna take it. So help them learn how to control themselves now. Or it does a lot of people unfortunately in bad control.
SPEAKER_03:Cool. Well tonight, tonight I want to talk about manhood. Um, and I know it's a general topic. We we can have a five uh five-day summit on manhood, but I wanted to really kind of pare it down to um just just like two questions because it is late and it's you know that bedtime, you know, for Keith. You know, not me for Keith. Um for you. All right, so yeah, we'll start off with this. Um manhood, you know, what is one misconception of manhood that you think women often misunder misunderstand, and why I for me, I would say that every man likes to be in charge.
SPEAKER_01:I know that sometimes it's just like it is harder to lead because when you're still trying to figure out what you're doing and you're leading other human beings, some of which are the same or have a higher level of education and intellect in certain aspects, it's like that there's a lot of men that it's just they don't know how they don't necessarily want to lead in every area of life, but we know that that's our job, and so we're gonna go and do it. But it's it's like we're trying to lord it over you, it's not like we're we're out here trying to make you bow and kiss the ring, but in the divine order, it's like okay, I'm supposed to be leading. Are you willing to follow? I've got a friend, I've got a couple friends right now going through divorce, and um one of them is directly linked to it's like you saying you want me to lead, but when I come out here and I'm out here to lead, you giving me grief. You pushing back. It's like can't win for losing. And so I think that for me, it would be the the misconception that that men want to be in charge of women. I don't know that that every man has that um that makeup. Some men just just want peace, some men want to get back to the kingdom uh way. It's like, okay, I wanna I wanna leave my family, but she won't follow me. And so she she thinks I'm trying to control her, which is a is a whole nother when you get into that one, it's like they don't want you to be a pushover, but the moment that you like stand up, there's there's I I got a lot of friends that uh would would speak to this phenomenon that when when you seek to stand your ground, I mean you the the fury of hell fire and brimstone. But if if you give way, you're perceived as being soft and a pushover, and she's gotta wear the pants and all this. You know what? I I would say just to answer the question again, I know I've gone all the way around the Mulberry bush here, but the the misconception that I think some women misunderstand is that men like to like control them. I don't think that every man is out to exercise power and control over a woman, but a lot of men are just trying to figure out how how do I lead you in a way that you'll follow and not come out with a nine millimeter when I'm standing up and just like trying to lead.
SPEAKER_03:When you look at God's model, God's model was never about control, it was given freedom of choice, yes, and leading by example, building that relationship. Understand the consequences.
SPEAKER_01:Do y'all know since I was all the way around the mic, do y'all know of any men who are out here or who have been in a relationship where they're seeking to lead the woman and she doesn't want them to be a pullover, but he's he tries to stand up, and next thing you know, is the issue because he's trying to control her.
SPEAKER_04:Like that doesn't happen.
SPEAKER_00:Yep, 100%. Talk to the brothers. Go ahead and you and you know what, man, and I'm gonna I'm gonna ask a question that leads into this question. I mean, that's around this question, but one of the misconceptions is that you know, especially in I guess conf I I would say conflict, um, a lot of women misunderstand that if a brother's being quiet or he's not rah-rah rah, that oh he he he ain't gonna do this or he ain't gonna do that. A lot of people okay.
SPEAKER_02:You said you said I was gonna I my mis my biggest misconception was gonna be on that on those lines. His his his meekness is not weak, is not weakness. Yeah, his ability to control his tongue is not it doesn't mean he he's weak because those are the same people that when they finally did snap.
SPEAKER_00:That's it. That's it. What do you call it? The hurt the hawk world breaker, that's what happens. Right. That is what that is what happens. And I think that sometimes women, uh some women weaponize a man being a man not going up. I'm not saying that you should go upside a woman's head, but sometimes a lot of you they do particular things that any other man probably go upside your head. Why are you doing that to me? Because now you know that I'm not going to do that, and you're thinking now that I'm soft, but then when you when you when you push that person to the brink, and then he goes nuclear, it's like, well, you kept on pressing that button. You kept on pressing the button. So I think that a lot of times when when men are are quiet, they're soft, especially in a particular type of situation, they're trying to calm themselves down, that we're looked at as if, hey, you know what, you know, you you're you're you're too soft or whatnot. But yeah, I I got a question of like even just with this question that you're asking, sometimes I think the question should be what is misconceptions of manhood that we think men often misunderstand.
SPEAKER_04:Bring it to the table.
SPEAKER_00:You know, I think there's a lot of things, a lot of I think a lot of things that we not even learn, things that we see, or just our own notions of what we feel like we should do as a man or what we shouldn't do as a man, is very uh it is very it has very uh it's it's misplaced, you know. And then that that has a lot of consequences, not only for you know, something your manhood, oh you gotta you gotta uh you know, if somebody says something to your woman or whatnot, you know, you you gotta you gotta say something, you gotta put your hands, you gotta lay hands.
SPEAKER_02:No, you gotta fight to the you gotta fight to the death. You you gotta either kill him or he gotta kill you.
SPEAKER_00:That's crazy, and then that goes into then what's what is your what is your woman thinking? Because say, for instance, a man just says, Oh, man, oh man, that bitch look good right there. You know, you can as a as a man, I'm thinking like, man, look, you know, this ain't cool. That's not cool. I don't you're not gonna disrespect my wife, ex always, all everything like that. It's going through somebody's head. But but you're also uh, you know, a a real man is also being think, should be thinking, okay, let me go ahead and get in this brother's face. Let me go ahead and do this, and that can lead to so many different other things, and maybe somebody getting hurt, somebody getting killed, somebody going to jail, all these particular things. And at this point in time, if I go get killed, get hurt, go to jail, how am I gonna how am I gonna really protect my wife? My man, my man ain't putting my his hands on my woman and like that. We need to leave this situation, not only for you know, the sake of you not being disrespected, but for me getting to a point to where, okay, you know what? Now I'm out of control. And I think that a lot of times men feel like they have to show that rah-rah rah side of them, but they're not thinking about preserving your family. And at a certain point in time, if you are, and and that goes into that it's a further step because that goes into um kind of the These gun laws, right? A lot of people get guns and think that, oh, I if somebody just comes to my house, I can just shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot them. No, you can't. You go to jail for that. You just shoot. You have to govern yourself in a way that everything has to be self-defense. It has in that person's not trying to get away. So, in that sense of owning a gun and understanding those things, you can go to jail very easily for where you think that, oh, I'm just supposed to protect this. No, it doesn't happen like that. You yeah, you protected and now you're going to prison because you killed somebody. Not the way the lost hit in the same way that that coincides with, hey, oh, I think that if somebody disrespects my or verbally says something, now you put you put your hands on my water, that's a different story. But verbally, you so many people have been put in this grave just because of saying something, because of little words. Man, walk away. What's wrong? Or or just if somebody cut you off in traffic, you ain't gonna disrespect me. I'm a man. Just just keep it moving. And I think our inability to understand, hey, as a man, really you should be governing your own emotions and your own thoughts and your own actions at this point in time instead of going off the rails.
SPEAKER_03:Um, that reminds me of this movie. I think it was Traffic, where um it was a black couple that uh stopped by a white cop and he basically felt his woman up and she looked at him and was like, Why didn't you do anything? It's like, what can I do? I'm leaning up against a car. If I did something, it would make it worse. Um, I'll say for me, one of the things I had to learn, misconception, is that um as a man, I'm supposed to be able to provide everything. Like and thought provisions was financial. And so would do, you know, instead of sharing or not even looking for um equity equitability, you know, 50-50, but you know, some fairness, like, hey, if I got this, you can get this. If I got instead, I was like, no, you need to be doing everything, everything, everything. And it was financially draining. And um, it was uh it it made uh I want to say I didn't have resentment, but it made me I started making poor financial decisions in order to keep up what I thought manhood was as far as provisions. And so after having a conversation with my wife and saying, hey, this is what I I can't carry all of this, um, I'm willing to accept your help. Uh we were able to kind of get to uh fairness and even some in some areas equitability, and it allowed me to recover financially, allowed me to thrive, because I was like, okay, this is we're sharing certain not everything, but certain like communal bills like mortgage, uh, insurance, uh child care, child provisions, but still having our own discretionary uh funding. So glad you asked that question, because we we as men we do walk in with our own misconceptions of manhood. Um and so I would say everything, just just check your own definition uh before getting into um whatever you think manhood is, and and talk it out with some other guys. Um can't just be uh can't just be your own view of what uh manhood is, and I think having a community, talking to uh your trusted advisors or trusted friends who've been through it, who maybe also going through it just to share ideas and make sure, hey man, that's that's gonna lead you down this road. Or, you know, I would probably pause, or you know, you got a good idea. I would uh phrase it this way. Um, so yeah. Uh Keith, while you're going on just saying that, you know, it's manhood, just uh really just understanding that it's not just about being the sole provider that uh that's the last thing I heard you say.
SPEAKER_02:You you feel like that's that's you're supposed to supply everything. You're just supposed to have everything, everything that's that's it's too much.
SPEAKER_01:And I would argue you're supposed to know everything.
SPEAKER_02:No, I was gonna say, and no, but not say it you because you can know everything. Oh that well no as a man you're supposed to know, but as when you when you get married, you can know, but you can't you you can't say it. You think you know everything. Okay, reverent.
SPEAKER_00:And as a man, you can't as a man you can't you can't you can't you can't grieve. We teach that to our boys early on, that you can't grieve.
SPEAKER_02:What's that? Grieve?
SPEAKER_00:You can't you you can't cry when it is appropriate. You know, we teach that very on, and that is a very that that's a big misconception uh misconception because eventually it's gonna come out, and when it comes out, it's it's usually nuclear.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it is everything isn't cry-worthy, you know, like you can be sad, there's different degrees of sadness. You know what?
SPEAKER_00:I think I told you I think I told this story before um where you know I was in the juvenile detention center, one of my kids got uh a phone call, his sister got killed. Um, we circled up and we talked about it. We asked him, hey, what's going on? Oh, you know, my he said, Hey, my sister got killed today, hey, go on to the next person. And the people, the kids kind of held him accountable and say, Hey, hold on, man, what you mean? You know, you you how you feeling about that, man? He said, How am I supposed to feel? Am I supposed to be sad or something? People die every day. And it's what we're teaching our kids. It's like he's like, No, I'm I'm being mad about it. I'm man enough. I gotta cry, but like, hold on, man, that's your sister, bro. What you think about it?
SPEAKER_03:In that setting, didn't he have to like kind of not cry? Because he would have been attacked.
SPEAKER_00:Uh uh no, no, no. We we we circle up. Yeah, we were circle. You normalize it.
SPEAKER_02:Fortunately, in that environment, we got a chance to normalize these emotions. So that's why when he says circle up, that's what I mean. We they had a group right then and there, they sat down, so all came together, circled up, and they talked about what's how are you really feeling? And sometimes it could be a shock thing because it might take a minute to really truly hit. Like you got the bad news because a lot, there's a lot of of us, and I think we're wired to be delay reactors, because sometimes we do have to keep and we have to keep fighting until the battle is over, and we have to grieve when the battle's over. We have to grieve when we're done, because there's some of us who are out there. Again, I give it to all the teachers, the EMS workers, policemen, and all these emergency workers that they have to get up every day and go do their job despite how they feel. Um, it's a lot of jobs, doctors, nurses, like it's a lot of jobs. It's a lot of us to get up and go out despite how we feel, and we don't get a chance to grieve or always know how we feel because we're we are immersed in everyone else's feeling or try we're we're working on the project. Sometimes it's not even about the sometimes it is other jobs like corporate jobs where I'm focused on the project, we got a big project that we got it, we gotta nail this, we gotta finish this. I don't have time for. I've heard people call me say, I don't have time to grieve. I don't have time, I don't have time for this, I don't have time for this. Okay, like Steve said, and I'm but it's oh it's it's there, it's there. So you better take time to, but it's gonna come. And when it comes, call I'll be here, but it's gonna be worse. If you delay this. But some but for some, but I get it sometimes for survival purposes of just getting through the day. Some people tend they they dissociate, they detach, they remove, they they step away from the situation, but it's gonna be there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you know what? Even with that question that you asked, Brian, even taking it one step further, just thinking about it, I think that there's a lot of mints, misconceptions about manhood that women are actually adopting as well, you know, especially when we maybe work with the stuff. Absolutely. Single women, this that and the third. A lot of a lot of women say, oh, nope, that's I I can do it all by myself. I should know everything. I need to pay all these bills by myself. I don't need nobody, I got it for myself, all these particular things, the I, I, I, I'm strong woman, this, that. And there's nothing wrong with being a strong woman, but when we start isolating ourselves from the other, uh, our counterpart or whatnot, you know, thinking that we can just do it all by ourselves, and that's what a strong person should be. That's that's a miscon misconception and a role that sometimes men usually took.
SPEAKER_02:And when we do that, a lot of times we do that. A lot of the people who do that are people who have been taught these. We started teaching these negative traits as positive ones. Same thing with manhood and doing everything and being in controls. Like there's certain things, because I've heard there's a lot of men who, when they get married, because the wonderful thing about you know having two parent households, and it's nothing wrong, because men do it too when it's like, well, you don't cook that like my mama did, or like my mama make it. And why wives hate that? And right, and rightfully so. But sometimes they, you know, some women be like, well, my daddy used to, well, he used to pay all the bills and build houses from scratch. And it's like, well, and that's not a bad thing. That's not a bad thing, but when it becomes a comparison or when it becomes an expectation that if your dad, if your dad, I'm just if your dad had four degrees and he was great at in accounting, and you marry somebody who barely passed algebra, like what do you expect? Like, is it fair to expect for him to have the brilliance that your father had? It's hard. And then some people will say, some people will expect, well, why would you marry a guy? You grew up with because I've heard some people even go to these women and say you grew up with a man who had four degrees, went to all these prestigious schools, had all this education, but you married this man who barely passed algebra. I mean, but he's smart. He got, but that's just it. He did, he's not her dad. That's bottom line. That's what I'm saying. He has in his own lane, in his own right, he's doing what he needs to do. He's in the blue-collar work, he uh contractor, building houses, hiring people. Like he has his own lane, he's doing well for himself, but he's constantly always being compared to her dad. Because you can't even compare these two fish. This you you got a fish and a bird. And so one swims, one swim, one fly.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, well, I was just gonna say, and sometimes we're forgetting even the scenarios and the situations that when we're trying to make these comparisons. I've just this week I had a couple where they were talking about well, my father paid all the bills, he did everything. He 100% he paid all the bills, you know. Mother had didn't have to lift a finger, this and the third. And and the the husband's counter, um his counter to that was well your mom also cooked every single day, washed all the clothes, tended to the kids 24-7, didn't have to, the man didn't have to lift a finger when it came to anything, cleaned another household, took care of everything in the household when the man got home. You know, so we're thinking about all these things about how we could help, how we want things done to us, but we're not thinking about the sacrifices that other people had to make in order for those things to happen. And we're trying to compare ourselves in a situation, in a scenario that just don't fit us. Because a lot of times a lot of women are not ready to be. I'm not even gonna say, um, they're not ready to be, I'm not even gonna say submissive or whatnot. I don't know what another word I could use, but they're not ready to be in that role where the man is just gonna pay for all the bills and he has to say so and this, that, and third, and you're just gonna do all the quote unquote woman stuff because that's not what the typical woman is trying to do right now, you know. Let's think about it.
SPEAKER_03:It's pretty hard to do that now. And then I would say that from they still weren't though understanding back then. While the band brought in all the money, he also divvied and said, Well, this is what you have for you, and it was a limited amount.
SPEAKER_00:There's some other things going on back then, too. Yeah, I mean, it was you get you get that you get that 60s or 70s man a lip some lip, and you you already know what you know what Sean Connery said. The men back then didn't play.
SPEAKER_03:So so um we're gonna talk about that. You know, I don't even want this one right now. Um we we're gonna bring up this one. So as a man, at what age and stage does trying to figure it out end and foundational responsibility begin. So I'm gonna say when I say figure it, I mean, trying to figure it out, I mean you just doing you jumping from job to job, you doing, you know, a six a 50-year-old rapper. Yeah, you yeah, something like that. But then leave me alone. Be responsible for you know your your family. You gotta, I don't wanna say, we used to say man up, you you're gonna have to put that dream on on the back burner and do whatever it is you gotta do in order to provide. So I know that when I say age and stage, I know at it's at different different ages, but at some point when as a man should I just let that dream go and pick up that that briefcase, that lunch pail, and just go out there and work.
SPEAKER_00:I think sometimes it's not about even just letting it go, but if you have responsibilities to to other people, like a wife or any kids, at that point in time, depending on your age, hey, maybe you need to sideline that dream to make sure that they're okay. Once they're okay, okay, let's just trickle it back in. But if you by yourself, do your own thing or whatnot. But at a certain point in time, if what your dream, if your dream is trying is impeding on the survival of your family, AI, your AI, your your wife, your or your kids, then you need to re-evaluate what you're doing at that point in time because you know that that's your responsibility. That is your responsibility as a man. That's what I feel. They come first.
SPEAKER_03:Now what if you don't have kids in response, but you with your parents?
SPEAKER_02:Ooh, that's a ooh, we I'm not sure. Most of the people, most of the people who are going through this right now are that's the age range. Is it's that 18 through 25. Like, because up to up to from that earlier on, they're expected to be home. They're expected to not have it together. But 18 and up, we start us, there are just expectations for people to start developing at some point at some point. I honestly don't expect 18 through 25, especially for boys. I don't expect them, I don't expect them to have it.
SPEAKER_00:They say you psychotic up until the age 25.
SPEAKER_02:You're just a yeah, your brain still develops, the brain's still the brain's still developing. So, but that's the I think that's the age and space where people will still give you grace, more grace. Because it's but the the problem is that sometimes opportunity and age don't match. Meaning, I've seen people who did not have the opportunity to explore other jobs until they got beyond that range. And now, for instance, oh, kind of got now, like you said, he had he was trying to also be an entertainer, Steve mentioned. He was trying to be an entertainer. It was working, not working, working, not working, but he got to a point where he had to, I mean, he still does it, but like you said, it he had to prioritize the development of the children that he fathered, and he had to go and find occupation, find employment that paid more. Now, now that his kids are older and they and now he's back out here doing what he likes to do and having a good time doing it. But it's not that pressure as well because he has additional income that he has generated over the last 10 years. So again, he still has the arts, he still likes to perform and entertain. Uh, but it but it's it his opportunities came later. So it looked like he was being where it looked like he was goofing off. I can understand, and I understand how it looked like, man, when you go and get get that corporate job and go back and and make that corporate money, and he's like, eh, nope, can't do it. But then there are there are those who are not trying, they're not even trying. Let's be honest. I know the I know the economy sucks. I know it's hard to find a job, and I'm not talking about those who are actually trying to engage and do this. I'm talking about those who don't know and don't just don't care. Uh it is what it is. I and so and make it babies, and that's again, that's the hard part because if it's just you, do we uh but when you start making babies, when you start making babies, or or you start, or you start borrowing a lot of money from a lot of different people, and now they can't wait to see you for Thanksgiving. I I think one guy he's gonna get jumped and his own family, his own family dead when he gets there, because he owe every what I say, he owe everybody.
SPEAKER_03:So what if a young man comes up and says, Man, you know, I'm I'm I'm trying. I'm trying, I'm trying, but it's not even that they're really trying like what uh at some point I remember when I was in in college, you know, I had to work four jobs in order to pay rent, and I think rent was only 450. How much how much would you get how much when you can this was back when um I worked like five hours? Back when you was only getting five dollars an hour. Five dollars an hour. I remember I worked at a daycare for a for a Sunday church. I was doing tour management. Uh Danny, no, that's probably why I was singing off key because I was tired. And I was also making cold calls trying to trying to generate 2024 and not really seeing much of that money. I had to work in order to facilitate in order to survive. And I think that's the if there's no need to survive, there's no need to to grow into to to get up. But it fellas, y'all gotta get up. Y'all gotta do something. Even if it's not paying you the the thousands that you feel like you're worth, you gotta do something. You gotta do something.
SPEAKER_00:It's c you know what sometimes I think it's getting harder for people to do this because we we we damn near have the world at our fingertips, right? And I mean I simply say when I'm talking to people about, hey, you know, going to Japan, going, you know, doing this, that, and the third. I actually had somebody tell me, oh man, I don't need to do that. I go I can go to Japan anytime I want. I can just go on on Google Maps and look at the street. I said, and it was dead, he's dead serious, in dead serious. In dead serious. We I can sometimes have access to the world in our fingertips in that manner. With there's there's really no aspirations to really do anything. Why do I need to learn how to drive to go here or go there? And I can just see it on my phone and experience. Why do I need to play a video game? I could just see somebody else play a video game. Why do I need to, you know, do all these things? I could just watch somebody else doing it. And I think that people are growing into that type of fashion of where they don't want to do it.
SPEAKER_02:Not even growing in, they're they're here. That's that's they're here, they're content watching somebody else. I I don't get the I I don't get the joy of playing video games and watching other people like because I would have watched yeah, I it drives me crazy. It's it's the opposite. It's like, oh, I can't wait to get on the stick. Like, I'm next. That's that's the area we grew up in. I'm next on the court. What you just said on the game.
SPEAKER_00:I thought you said you said never mind. Nothing. I thought you said no.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, get on the stick. Let's let's make sure we say that. Get on the stick, right? Video games.
SPEAKER_02:Video games. That's that's the I know I'm an old man. That's terminology for I'm joystick. Video Atari was the first joy up, right, if you lost in Madden.
SPEAKER_00:Because there was 12 dudes in the front.
SPEAKER_02:You had the line. Yep, because everybody, all the people had an X after you, so you gotta go to the end of the line.
SPEAKER_03:Thousands just showing themselves playing a video game, talking real loud.
SPEAKER_00:Whoa, wow, uh, but they're willing, they're willing to, and they're willing to experience it. There's so many people that are either scared or don't want to experience it, but think that the experience lies in the screen in their phone. That's why you have so many people when they go on it, when they're going to like concerts or things local, they always have their phones and they're not experiencing it and being in the moment. They're experiencing it and living through it through their phones and can't wait to text somebody else or post it their experience. It's it's the weirdest thing. It is the we're we're we're we're not living in the moment, we're not experiencing anything, and anything that we do experience, we want other people to experience at the same time. It's very weird.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:Cool, cool. All right, last question. It's just uh this toss up. You know, we talked about how things are different. You know, how is success changed from the 80s and 90s to today? You don't want to talk about it? Fine, we don't have to talk about it.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's that's big.
SPEAKER_03:All right, we won't we'll we'll save that for another time.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, I'm just saying just for me, they may y'all might want to. That's a big one.
SPEAKER_03:How has success changed? Yeah, like okay, I'll I'll start. Okay. We were told to go to college. College was the path to success. Now, I'm with Steve now because if I never mind.
SPEAKER_00:You ain't even gotta do that no more. Just get a only OnlyFans, get some pictures of your woman. If you a woman, you get some pictures of your feet, you can sell your doo-doo, and you can be a millionaire overnight.
SPEAKER_02:That's what I tell you. In the words of the great, I'ma quote the I'ma quote the great Steve Stuckey, and I got a degree for what?
SPEAKER_00:What I do tell them he asked people, what you get your line in? What you get your line?
SPEAKER_02:What'd you get your lie in? It was like, what you get your line? It's like I did all of this, and she over here selling doodle speed on her feet.
SPEAKER_04:It was one thing he was going.
SPEAKER_00:He was going on a it was people it was people just opening up boxes on YouTube, and they get millions, the companies will send them products for free. And they're getting up millions of dollars just for opening up box. They're not even reviewing it, they're just opening the books.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. And I went to I went to school.
SPEAKER_00:You know what? And that's and that's messed up because now they're coming out with competent about don't eat processed foods, don't do this. Like, that's all y'all gave us as kids. If y'all gave us TV, then y'all gave us all this candy, all this car, and now you see now you're gonna say it's yeah, now you're gonna say it's bad for us. It's too late. What you mean? That's not fair. It's not fair, it's not fair. So they're like I said, don't get me started, man. It's not all right.
SPEAKER_03:So we were told to get degrees, we were told to get a certain type of house, we were told to get, you know, now, you know, you gotta have certain numbers in front of a comma um as far as your your earnings. But now, do we still need all of it? Well, I guess not.
SPEAKER_01:I gotta throw one more in there. I the please, baby, please. Oh, the begging?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Going back to the 80s and 90s music, like success in your romantic relationship. Well, you know, all things that you got, I gotta go get that. I got I gotta go and make her happy because she's my world, she's my she's the sunshine of my life.
SPEAKER_03:Um yeah, and then he's just a hater.
SPEAKER_00:It's just not fair. It's the some of the stuff that men are getting away with, they're getting away with murder. I'm thinking like, I'm too nice. I'm too nice. What? Some of the things that I hear that that that women come back on dates and and have to go through, and and some of these women still stay with these men. I'm like, what? This is this is this is the the bar? This is all right. It's not fair. No, it's not fair. We were guinea pigs, man. It's not we were guinea pigs.
SPEAKER_03:It's not fair. Well, guess we can uh become plumbers and and electricians, which I would say is very lucrative. You need people need running water, they need electricity. Mortuary science, people gonna die. Surely they are gonna lose everything or only science that can't be the answer to success.
SPEAKER_00:Hey hey dude.
SPEAKER_04:Why do I keep going there? Because it's fine.
SPEAKER_03:It's crazy. I'm pretty sure the first person who ever did it, it was like, Wait, no, no, hold on, Tommy.
SPEAKER_00:No, there are people in other countries that will fly women out from this country to their country to come over there and take and take a dump on them for thousands of dollars. For thousands of dollars. This is not fair. I went to school again. That's my I went and I went to school.
SPEAKER_02:That's fair. I'm glad you went to school because of you here.
SPEAKER_03:You had to see you got a seat at the table because you went to school. Which is the crazy thing.
SPEAKER_00:But even when you go to school, they don't properly teach you everything you need to know. There should be a a there should be classes behind classes about proper tax codes, being able to do get a business to do tax writers, you know, doing what all these other businesses do and what people are passing down to from other people from other generations, but they ain't telling us absolutely but then we we over here learning some other stuff uh uh about uh some of this history that that they want us to know that I even gotta use no more because now just why I got this device I can just look it up, but it's not gonna say useless information, but it's information that's not per production.
SPEAKER_02:If it's a lie, it's useless. And a lot of things that we learn was a lie, or it wasn't conducive to what we need to do, like you said, tax codes, how to build a business, what how to what is interest and why we need to be, you know, all the things that are taught in some of the other schools that don't look like us, but our schools know. We we learned how to be consumers, we learn how to stay in debt, we've learned how to do the bare basic of a lot of things and excel in things that nothing against any of my athletes, but I mean again, uh everybody not playing basketball for the more of us can go out and do other things than play sports. Um but we but we were told sports and entertaining. If you if you can if you can bounce the ball, you can sing, you're gonna be great. And so that's what a lot of people aim for when they they are great at other things. Um, so it it we have believed a lie. And I think now I think people are starting to see that because we don't have stars anymore like we had back in the day, because once upon a time, Hollywood was the hub of the stars. Now anybody could get on uh line and make a carve out a lane for themselves. So um it that has changed. Um but you would think it would cause more people to again. I think if that had happened in our time, many of us were so kind of like you said, creative and persistent. Like I I feel not feel, I know the Bible true. We got uh they're why weaker and wiser, like they have all the this generation has all the access to everything that could help make them be great, but no drive, no drive or passion to do any of it.
SPEAKER_00:That's true. I see why they see what they they see the lot that we was told.
SPEAKER_02:He was like, I ain't stupid, I ain't well that that that part, like, yeah, because a lot of them are a lot of college enrollment is down, university enrollment's down for a reason. I think a lot of them are like it. I don't want three million dollars in student loan debt.
SPEAKER_03:Is it a really a lie, or is it because those that didn't have to go that route now is lucrative to be a content. creators.
SPEAKER_00:Let me tell you, no, no, hold on. Here's why it's a lot. You want to ask a question. I'm going to tell you. There was a school that I was going to go to, right? And uh it was for video game design, right? And it was like, yeah, you get a video game degree or whatnot. And it was one of those ones where you just like a two-year certificate in video game design, right?
SPEAKER_02:It was a specs. Never mind. Never mind.
SPEAKER_00:Oh no, it was uh I think it was called it was called the uh Art Institute or something like that. They had some in Michigan, right? I remember that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah they went out of business. Yeah. Because I tried to go there too.
SPEAKER_00:He told me stay in that bill. 90% uh job placement as soon as you get done with your thing. I was like, oh that's cool. That's what's up. I do further research and it they considered working at Best Buyer GameStop job placement. Because guess what? It deal it deals with they sell video games. Video games is a certificate that you got in so guess what? You've placed in your field. That's a lot. That's a lot. You're out of your mind. And I'm going to give you a hundred to a hundred and fifty thousand dollars for two year certificate that is useless now? That's not fair. There was a there was a com you guys remember this commercial where it was this guy I don't know if it was Everest or it was another particular I or ITT take some one of those uh schools that doesn't exist anymore because it was called um I forgot what it was called but the commercial was like he was like what are you doing? You're on the couch watching your life go by you're not doing anything all this what it's one brother everybody knows. And then they had this sister talking about something what are you doing you you got the baby you can do this you can do that but come on now. They didn't even have degrees themselves how you gonna that that that's where the lie comes in where you have you're you're telling me all these things that you don't even have how's that oh yeah I remember that and again now these schools are out of business because the lie has been exposed but the thing about it is is that they're kind of doing the same thing that these other schools are doing. You know what I mean because it's part of a bigger system in of itself is like you know there's no excuse why teachers get paid the money that they get paid. It's it to deal with what they're dealing with. Terrible that's not terrible that's not fair. That is not fair whatsoever. You know so you know in a sense it is a lot and other countries don't do this.
SPEAKER_03:Let me stop we'd be here all day well I think what happens we valued rarity which is why your your actors and your um the limited availability so you're but no that was a lot too it's it's perceived it's perceived rarity there are so many people who could hoop who could sing who could perform some of those that we consider but they didn't right there somebody but it was that was that was controlled but that too was intentionally controlled.
SPEAKER_02:So because the talent is not certain talent is not rare there almost opportunity is rare and then when you had the record industries and all these industries set up they created even more scarcity so only only a few got through that that but now they can't control it because like I said anybody can go pluck up a pluck up a camera and a mic and a and a an instrument and sing their little precious heart out or they got people doing whole monologues by themselves standing ovations at home um so a lot of these AI AI breaking that down too because you got people that that don't even exist signing record deals. Don't even exist that's true that's true well of uh my face it's your bed yep it's your bit it's it's time to wrap this up you know it's it's it's late it is late so before we go anybody got the dark words no not based on some of the stuff you said I think it's your part of words is when in doubt find a box yeah that's you might become a spokesperson for that what's that uh um that white and blue box that they you know we're colon cancer yeah colon screening yeah oh yeah what happens if we find out that they later on like years from now because I want that they were taking that and making money off of it by harvesting it they they cloning they cloned making clones doodle clones I thought about that too so I'm I'm before even before now I'm like what they really need this what they really need this for but what my doctor my doctor said you can either send in the specimen or you can come into into the office and and call well no not like yeah you can get the other check I'm like yeah give me that box go ahead make me go ahead and make me a clone go ahead we not doing this what's y'all what's y'all final thoughts now I may or may not have nodded off once or twice on this broadcast so I'm just gonna say amen I said it was kind of I got final thoughts for you and I'll just let you know I told you we need to make a segment of things that women should not say to men women never tell your man you are mid-turd okay I'm done okay that's it I don't even know why why that would even be right exactly all I asked her was hey are you busy uh uh I can't come here I'm mid-turd that's it I'm done we're done so she's not gonna see this episode because I was gonna say that we need to bring our significant others in for women to be in trouble she can you brought she can he said she said it he said she said it we had a talk we can't do that no more well white collar i will say this uh the journey of manhood is is different for everybody but it all goes through i believe the same God um and as we learn ourselves we're not looking for somebody else to tell us who we are now we how we can play a better role or facilitate a role in their life that can be told to us what we can do to make them happy but when you are following God a lot of times it would automatically align you and and people and other men of God because so because I again we here because iron sharpens iron because sometimes we think we do it right and we need somebody say try this way but come on come in young man come in young man try it this way try it this way and uh but so so as we as we seek to better understand this journey of manhood just better connecting with God himself because we we get a lot of answers that way um that we don't have to worry about somebody telling us that we gotta be just like this person or that person we know who we're called to be okay all right Elder Jones we'll end on that um this is the Iron Table where iron sharpens iron so should men sharpen men and um yeah that's about it see y'all in about another five years I'm I'm I'm sending my doodle clone oh my Jesus
