The Iron Table
The Iron Table
When Sucking It Up Just Won't Do: Navigating Grief
Grief lives in the shadow of masculinity, often unacknowledged until it erupts in destructive ways. In this deeply reflective episode, Bryant, Keith, and Steve unpack the complex relationship men have with loss and emotional pain.
The conversation opens with raw accounts of workplace trauma—mass layoffs leaving empty cubicles where colleagues once sat, creating what Bryant describes as "survivor's remorse." This launches an honest exploration of how men typically process grief: through internalization rather than expression, often leading to physical health problems or unhealthy coping mechanisms like substance abuse.
We examine the generational differences in grief processing, noting how older men were conditioned to "suck it up" while younger generations might be more willing to seek help—though still facing significant barriers. The hosts share powerful stories illustrating how cultural conditioning teaches men that showing emotion equals weakness, leaving many ill-equipped to handle significant losses when they inevitably come.
Particularly poignant is the discussion about the Black community's relationship with grief, described as "unhealthy survival tactics" passed down through generations. The conversation touches on how trauma is often worn as a "badge of honor" rather than something to be processed and healed, and questions whether this approach serves anyone well.
The hosts offer practical wisdom for supporting someone experiencing grief, emphasizing consistent check-ins rather than just immediately after a loss. Their message is clear: there's no single "right way" to grieve, professional help is valuable, and acknowledging your emotions doesn't make you weak—it makes you human.
Why not join us at the Iron Table, where men can speak openly about the challenges we all face? Subscribe, share, and add your voice to this important conversation about emotional well-being.
Welcome to the iron table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. I'm your host, bryant, and I'm joined by my boys, keith Danny and Steve, and I'm joined by my boys, keith Danny and Steve. We are bringing you truth with a side of humor loaded with accountability and thought. We now bring you to our program already in progress. Welcome to the Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. A couple of housekeeping items, of course.
Speaker 2:You can find this recording on our audio recording on irontablebudsproutscom. You can also find it on Apple Podcasts, spotify, what used to be Google Podcasts, because we want you to be safe and not watch this while you're driving on the highway. We don't own any rights to any music used during this segment. We appreciate the talents of those musicians. We only use their music to honor their gift. So all that copyright stuff. We're sorry. We are sorry, but if you subscribe, like and subscribe and share this, then we can probably generate enough income in order to start paying these people back Again, as I said, you can find us. Just search for the iron table. There's another iron table out there and we we appreciate that we were first and that there's others that's come behind us and they're doing a phenomenal job. It's a little bit different Now. We've got all those housekeeping things out.
Speaker 2:I am Bryant, I brought to the table Keith and Steve Danny is somewhere, probably in the backwoods, trying to find his way back to the microphone. He may join us, he may not, we don't know. We don't put trackers on anybody, we just let people be who they are and show up when they show up. It has been probably about a month since we've been able to reconnect. Uh, just the stress of um, at least my stress, in having to shift from what is it? Uh, working remotely for, or teleworking, because I did go in one day a week, but for at least the past 10 plus years, been able to work at least two days at home, two days in the office, because my job is. I can do my job remotely and still have the same, if not better, effect because I'm not socializing. It's just me and my work.
Speaker 2:However, with the change in administration always comes a change and we've had, we had to address, address. You know what does change look like and how do you? How do you address it? Um, from a male standpoint, because normally we just internalize, we don't really verbalize, and it leads to a plethora of health ailments, be it it thinning hair, graying out internal organs, just all out of whack. Health just one down a drain and typically, as what my choir director used to call us suntanned folks, we would probably go to our normal vices of alcohol, drugs and poor healthy choices not just eating wine but also food. So it's been a couple of weeks, but before we get into that, I just want to check in with my brothers and see how their time since we last spoke have been. Somebody say something so I can get my thoughts together and go through another talk.
Speaker 3:Busy but good man, busy, but good.
Speaker 1:Okay, I definitely excuse me, I'm getting over something, but I definitely second that. It's definitely been busy, but definitely good.
Speaker 2:Okay, for me it's been interesting. I was if those who have watched news over the past I think it was like two weeks ago may have been three weeks ago there was a mass rifts or reduction in force and there was a lot of people it was a Tuesday. People were standing out in line for anywhere between 30 minutes to two and a half hours, only to find out that when they got in and they tried to scan their badge, that their badge didn't work, and that was how they found out that they did not have a job. It was on the news, I believe. A reporter tried to talk to me and I was like I don't got time. You know, someone lost a job. I was like I ain't got time to answer your questions. I got to get to where I need to be, but it has been an adjustment and I tell you, survivor, remorse is real.
Speaker 2:You go past a cubicle or people you used to see. You don't see them. The reasoning behind it you really don't understand. It's just been. Chaos is an elementary word to use. This is disruptive, I'll say very disruptive. I'm thankful that I got a job. I'm thankful that I'm still working. I'm thankful that I got friends to when I do feel the need to vent and use colorful language. Those people are there to listen and to laugh and joke. Just prayerful thoughts go out to those who are definitely sitting at home wondering what their next steps will be. Hopefully everything works out for their best. Don't know what that is, but hopefully it does.
Speaker 2:And then people as we age, I was telling Keith I mean we even posted this on social media. You know, we're at a point in time now where those who we love are beginning to cease to exist in the physical sense, and so I just recently lost an aunt. Earlier last week and before then I saw some people. A former schoolmate of mine had lost both parents within a three. I was at a one month, 30 day range. And so we're now entering a stage in our lives where grief and loss is going to become as common as waking up and breathing. So, and we normally see our opposite sex, you know, deal with it, you know by crying, by wailing. But what does it look like for men? Today we're going to talk about grief. What does grief in men look like? How do you address it? What do we understand grief to be? There's some brothers out there that are either going in it, still in it. And let me say this it doesn't go away. There is no blueprint on how to handle it handily.
Speaker 2:There is, however, resources and supports to help navigate it, and it's not a one time you get to the finish line. I believe it is for the rest of one's life. When you're dealing with grief and loss of somebody who raised you, who poured into you, and so the two of you deal with people on a regular basis and helping them navigate just the different parts of their lives. And as you come to them and they share their grief, what is it that maybe, as men, are missing? How do we yeah, how do how do we understand and address grief, so that we don't fall into the normal traps of that again, I say we, as suntan folks, will the vices that we go to, we, as suntan folks will the vices that we go to, you know, I think um one of the first steps, uh, and it's here's the thing, no, no one thing fits for everybody, you know.
Speaker 1:So definitely having an understanding that what works for one may not work for um person. But definitely having an understanding there are some fundamental things that need to be done. First of all, it's just not only just acknowledging it and dealing with it. And how you acknowledge and how you deal with it can differ from person to person. But that's one of the key things. I'll never forget this.
Speaker 1:Working at a juvenile detention center, I remember one of my. You know we circle up with all the young folk and they're talking about different things. One of the kids got a phone call that said his sister had just got killed. So you know, every day we circle up and they talk about you know things, they, you know things that are happening in their day. And he said, hey, guess what? You know I guess what? But you know I got a phone call today. My sister got killed or whatnot. And you know everything else is. It is what it is, you know, and they kept it moving.
Speaker 1:So, part of the group is accountability by your peers. When the peers say, hey, man, you know how are you doing, how are you taking everything, or whatnot, he started to get very angry. He said, well, how am I supposed to feel? Am I supposed to cry? Or something like that? Man, everybody dies, people die every day. It is what it is. But you can definitely tell that you know he grew up in a society that tells a boy, you know, or a man that it's not okay, it's not good to cry, it's not good to show your emotions on that. But, as Keith will allude to a certain analogy, when you keep stuffing your emotions in, they're going to come out some way somehow. And at that point in time some anger started to come out towards other people. Because he was told hey, don't cry, don't show any emotion. But there is appropriate time to show emotion, to cry, to grieve, but when we don't, it's disastrous in other areas of our life.
Speaker 2:So when a young man said it is what it is, is that a coping mechanism that men use just to diffuse like, oh, I feel that tear coming, tear come back up. That's just life why do?
Speaker 3:we do that.
Speaker 1:I think that it's a show of being macho, not showing any weakness. We look at having emotion, even in situations like that, as a sign of weakness. You know, and that's where you know everything goes wrong, because you know, as men, we forget that anger is still an emotion. It's definitely an emotion, but that one particular thing with us when it comes to anger that leads us to either you, to either us die, or us being incarcerated, or us losing family members or friends because of our actions. It's something that we definitely had to keep in check, but it's definitely a defense mechanism, because we've always been told you can't show that weakness. If you cry, even in the midst of losing someone, that's weakness, you know. So we, we bottle it up, but it's, it's going to come out, it's definitely going to come out, it's got to come out.
Speaker 3:Has no choice. Um, grief. Grief and loss go together. Um, most times it's it's inevitable. Um, we're going to experience it and everybody is. It's multifaceted, it's multilayered, so everyone doesn't experience it different. I mean the same way. Everyone is going to experience it in the way they have either been taught or they have learned, or sometimes we still pick up things along the way. But everyone doesn't share grief the same way. So even how you may process grief, how I may process grief may not be how somebody else will process it. So why do people do what they do? There's a lot of reasons for that. That would take a whole seminar to break down all of those facets. But we are different people who have different needs. Sometimes it is what it is.
Speaker 3:I don't want to talk about it right now. Let's talk about something else, because I can't change what has happened. They're gone, I'm still here, and right now I don't want to talk about it. So, while it is a form of deflection, maybe right now they need to deflect, maybe they need to focus on I'm still here, I got to still pay the bills. My mama or my wife or husband are gone and I got to figure out how we're going to eat today. So I mean, I could talk about the grief, I can talk about the loss, but right now I need to talk about what plan B? I mean, what's next? What am I doing now? So coming back to it later. Some people have to do that. Some people still need to process themselves what they even feel, because I've been so angry or so numb I don't even know what I feel. So there's a lot to be said on this topic that, like I said's, it's like an onion. It has several layers okay.
Speaker 2:So if someone is going through the what? Is it five stages, or is it seven stages of grief? I can't remember. It might be five stages. When, as a part of their support system, do you? When, as a part of their support system, do you reach out to them like, when do you like? Like, what do you do? What are the warning signs to let you know that that person is on the verge of breaking, when you're not used to seeing them show emotion?
Speaker 3:You may not always know, so it depends on your relationship with the person. I say check in, I mean throughout. It doesn't. Naturally, when someone dies, we all know that everybody's there at the beginning. I've done my little presentations about this and when I talk about how everyone comes in and crowds around at the beginning, everyone wants to call us and cars and their love when the event first happens. But come by, sometimes 90 days, six months, a year out, you're still grieving and the world has moved on Checking throughout. They may not need every day, it might just be once a week, once a month, but still just checking.
Speaker 2:There's a fine line between nagging and checking in. When does it turn? When does it go from check in to nagging? And have you seen I mean because you talk to a lot of people, you know, probably talk to people about this Like, is there, as a support system, Is there a point where we have to take a step back and say that man, you know, probably checked in too much? Or, you know, are we re-triggering someone?
Speaker 1:And that's a part of letting somebody know, hey you know, are you OK, are you good? And OK you know if I let me know if you need me for anything, but give that power to them to say hey, you tell me when you need me for anything, but give that power to them and just say hey, you tell me when you need me, when and if you need me.
Speaker 2:So that way we don't have to always be asking a lot.
Speaker 1:But if you start to see certain things, yeah, definitely ask, but at a certain point in time just say, hey, let me know if you need anything from me, I'm here for you, and leave it at that and that's okay.
Speaker 2:It's definitely okay, okay.
Speaker 3:Now, do men always know how to ask, because they'll know they need help. But do we always know how to go and ask, even when people say, hey, I'm here for you, let me know if you need anything? Well, think about it. Do men actually even know how to go back and even ask those make themselves vulnerable enough to say I need help?
Speaker 2:Well, when things aren't going bad and men ask for help and don't get it, you know what makes you think they're going to ask for when they aren't in serious need of help. That's why I ask. I mean that's, that's the will.
Speaker 3:Some are getting to a place where, like I said, some of the some of the younger guys I see they are in a different space than some of the older guys. The younger guys will ask, like that's why they come into therapy, that's why they're trying to figure their lives out, figure their finances out. They're trying to do things differently than previous generations who just said suck it up, get through it. And while there is some areas sometimes where that has to be the hand you're dealt, there are other times where we need to pause and go figure ourselves out. So a lot of older generations don't either want to or they don't know how to ask for help. So for some of them you may have to just show up and be present and just wait for them to finally say what's on their mind.
Speaker 2:So what I'm hearing when I'm playing doubles advocate, it's us old people. That's the problem, that we just stuck in our ways, that we, we, we got this false sense of macho manness. Oh yeah, you know, we just just holding on we've just never been taught to do it.
Speaker 3:We've never had the opportunity that we rarely have had the opportunity to do it without penalty. And what do you mean by that? If you go to work and say I need three days off because I lost a loved one and I'm grieving If it ain't like again the way the system is set up, if you ask for that and you it ain't a like specific loved ones mom, dad, child, grandparent the answer is no, get back to work. So why even open up and share why I need three days off? I'm just going to call off sick. I'm not going to tell nobody while I'm calling off, except for those who may be in my immediate circle. But we're set up in a society where you can't always be honest about how you feel or what's really going on. So why even bother?
Speaker 2:That's deep right there. That is true. When asked me for sick leave, they just say I'm sick. Don't go into specifics. It's not even that they're going to care. You don't want to give someone an opportunity to even try to justify what you're doing or not. Correct your reasons why, or not. Correct your reasons why? So is the newer generations actually stronger than the older generations because they can ask. They do know how to ask for help and go to counseling.
Speaker 3:They're more equipped. As it is written they are wiser and weaker.
Speaker 2:So where's the weaker part? I'm seeing that you're opening up questions.
Speaker 3:Because they have the resources, they have the tools and they don't use them Proper, or I'm saying just in general. In general, Now I'm about to tell you if I get on this topic, I'm very left. But again, think about it you know how many kajillionaires we would have in our generation if we had the access to the resources that they have right now. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So the same thing when it comes to health. It's not just financial, it's mental, spiritual, emotional. All this information is out there, but we don't want that. Give us the twerk videos. I'm sorry I'm about to no go there, but I'm saying my point is though many of them will, I'll put it this way Also, more resources are available for them than it was for us. So it's almost like they I'm going to say they don't have a choice because they do Right, but we weren't getting sent to therapy for issues we had. We get punched in the face, clothesline, kicked down the flight of stairs, get your act together and that's it. I don't care if you said, because your nana died, you better pull it together. You know what?
Speaker 1:that's funny that you say that too, because me and Mrs was at a fitness and people let people know that we psychotherapists and we were in a room full of uh, most of you know in the room, most of the guys everybody was laughing and joking and it was like hey, you know, y'all need to come see them, or what. Now they was laughing and joking but the main thing they were saying was, oh, we're not crazy, uh, oh, we're not crazy, uh-uh, we're not crazy, uh-uh. It's this stereotype that if you go to see somebody in regards to your mental health, you're crazy. So that coincides with hey, if I'm feeling some type of way, if I have these emotions, I'm dealing with these things and it doesn't feel right, even though I know I have these resources, to go see somebody. No, I don't want to go see somebody because I don't want to be looked at as crazy. That in and of itself, is crazy.
Speaker 2:Just don't talk to anyone saying that you're going there, just be like, keep it to yourself, keep everything else to yourself, keep that to yourself. I always wonder if it's a money thing, also, because that is not free. It costs a low amount of resources. You got to kind of weigh the cost of mental health or my physical health by eating.
Speaker 1:This is a room full of people that had very good insurance, very good insurance, you know so they, you know if it not be us, anybody else, but there's that stigma. It's the stigma, even just to the self, that if I have to go talk to a mental health therapist there's something wrong with me. That's not always the case. Life, life happening doesn't mean that there's something wrong with you. It just means life is happening. We all need somebody to be able to navigate that and sometimes when you try to navigate that by yourself, you know it's very lonely and you get caught up in your own thoughts and your own scenarios. And being able to talk to somebody that's not biased about some of these issues whether it be anything you know is definitely beneficial. But again, that's the old, the old, the um, societal stigma, stigmas of if I gotta go see somebody, I'm crazy, especially in our community, especially in the black community what if we were to recategorize what trauma is, because I see a lot of stuff that we've experienced.
Speaker 2:Today it's now considered a traumatic experience, but in the 80s, 70s, 80s and even the sixties, you know, it was like, nah, you got what you got because you probably deserved it. Like, wait a minute, if we look back, if, maybe, if, would that have changed the trajectory of mental health in in the black and brown community? If we were to say, well, you know what. There's one thing about getting a spanking, but then a whooping is traumatic. No, spanking is discipline, but a whooping. Or you know, back in the day and I can attest to this, you know, I got in trouble at school Back. They used to be able to give you discipline at school. Then on your way home, you got disciplined by talking and then, after hearing getting hit, getting caught too, you're going to get hit again. So you're getting a sandwich of discipline. Really, if you think, is that excessive? Now that would be considered excessive.
Speaker 2:We categorize a lot of the stuff that men and women went through in that time period by people who did their best. Would that have led to more visits to mental health providers? Would that bring more people into that field Because, you know, it's one thing to for me to talk to someone who just in general, but talk to a peer, someone that looks like me, who can get some of my colloquial language. It goes to a certain. It hits more. But if we start them off, as you know, suck it up, you'll get over it. The stinging will stop. Eventually those whelps will go down. You know. Oh you hearing shots in the middle of the night. They'll stop at some point or tell you those are fireworks. There ain't no fireworks when it's raining outside. Our community has been bred on I'll call it unhealthy survival tactics. It's something that has been passed down for years, since slavery.
Speaker 1:Which is weird, because you have a lot of people in our community refuse to go to therapy but want to then put their kids in there, but they don't want to go to therapy, which is the weirdest thing in the world. So it's like you. You know it may, you know it probably works and you know it's beneficial, but it's okay. It's okay for your kids to go or everybody else to go, but not you.
Speaker 2:I don't know why we gotta carry trauma as a badge of honor and we do that. It's like, and I've been through some stuff, but I'm still here like dude, you hanging on by a thread. You don't see it, but the rest of us do well there can be some area, because what's the opposite of that?
Speaker 3:it's a big pity party, I'll tell you, so you can have people walking around saying I've been through some things and my life sucks, and everybody's life sucks, and I don't know why I want to be here anymore. I should end it all today, so would I? I mean, I could keep going on and on. And if you've been, if you've been, not, if those of us, which is all of us who have been through any form of trauma, I'd rather hear I've been through it and I survived it, which because, again, that allows me to know I can get through other things, versus the opposite of that, where the world is a terrible place and I don't want to be here anymore because I can't get through my trauma. I'm stuck in trauma.
Speaker 2:This is coming from a person who told me to just shut up and eat the chunky mashed potatoes.
Speaker 3:Well, that's different. That wasn't traumatic, it was. That wasn't traumatic. Shut up, eat the mashed potatoes. Anime.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to have my silky smooth mashed potatoes. Might as well have a big potato. But yeah, I see and I've experienced it and I can even see it in a lot of men and even in my own family that we were, we were raised by people that had to be tough because of the environment that they were in, and that toughness covered just about almost every decision that they made or choice. And in order to prepare us for a world that was not one that was going to look at us like a threat, we could not show certain emotions because it wasn't going to make anything better, or even invoke empathy or sympathy from those who were in power directed to us. But now that, I would say, power dynamic is shifting.
Speaker 2:It's not 90-10, it might be 60-40. It'll never be 50-50. I'm just going to say that it will never be 50-50. It'll never be 50-50. I'm just going to say that it will never be 50-50. Is that why we, as parents, as the lead generation of today, advocating for more mental and emotional health? Because we can actually Absolutely?
Speaker 3:We need more mental and emotional health, but I don't want to. I don't feel like, Okay, the oversaturated, abusive version of the generation before us. Yes, we need the pendulum to swing back a little bit, but we've swung it too far the other way. Where that toughness, a lot. Where that toughness, a lot of that toughness. We've gotten rid of A lot of that toughness that they have. We struggle to have it. I'm not saying that it was always healthy, but there's a balance somewhere in there where we went from being over calloused and built like a tank to just now we are. I don't even know what's what's the most we are.
Speaker 3:I don't even want to call us glass. We were fragile in glass. Now, like I see kids, they get called one little name, shut up fathead, and like, oh my gosh, I'm trauma, like they they're on the ground in a fetal position because they're very sensitive. They're very sensitive. That's for a lot of different reasons. There can be some other things going on in that situation, but as a whole, a lot of us have become very sensitive to the slightest again. It used to be a time somebody could even adults I'm talking about kids, but let me go, I mean even adults somebody cut somebody off and it has to end in murder or tragedy. Somebody now people running off the road and people dead. Like we've gone from once upon a time you can yell out the window, give somebody the finger and y'all keep driving to church, driving to church. Times have changed where, emotionally, this generation's rap different. Like I said, we're not dealing with the same people, no more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it used to be what the trigger was. You could say anything about me, but don't say anything about my mama. You say something about my mama we fighting. You got to fight your shoes in tight, what?
Speaker 3:Get you, but even that you would fight and you would both live to talk about it the next day. Now they don't fight. They're so emotionally wound up in the nerve to have guns. So those two, that's not a good mix for anybody. So when you ask about the difference between the generations, the older generations were angry, but they beat the snot out of each other and lived to talk about it.
Speaker 2:They were good being friends afterwards.
Speaker 3:Yeah, let's go get a beer If that's what you do now. These young guys, they wound tight, they're going through a lot of trauma, a lot of grief and they got guns Some of them.
Speaker 1:The world is getting a little more aggressive, just much more. I was reading an article yesterday about they were talking about the study has been showing that people drive you. It's just people are more aggressive than what they were just 10 years ago, you know. So the world is getting to be definitely more aggressive and we're normalizing certain things in media, in social media and what we view on the screen. You know, we're just, we're very aggressive and we don't know where to put this energy and we're told, hey, not to do certain things and we can't be a certain way. But you know, if somebody do you wrong, okay, you know, you gotta call the police, you gotta you know, like you just said, either go to jail or dock over it.
Speaker 1:It's so aggressive that we're not able to just stop and not do not act on our behaviors as well. I mean not act on our emotions, and that's very detrimental to the way we're talking about grief, because that is still. That is definitely an emotion. But my thing is okay being able to be in grief and not act on that grief too, because sometimes you can be so sad or so mad that you know what you definitely take it out on other people, and sometimes you take it out on other people that have detrimental consequences too, and we're just not able to manage these emotions at all, and it's getting worse and worse.
Speaker 2:That's because what I see um and I'm glad you brought up media media has changed dramatically. I remember where, like the worst thing on tv would be like lawn or svu. You'd be like what in the world? Nobody would do stuff like that. Now it's like they are trying hard to come up with stuff. They almost almost got to retread. There's stuff that we would see that you can only get on HBO and Showtime and Cinemax. Now it's on Fox and Disney. There's no regulation and when you have a young, impressionable mind that does not see even a build-up, it is instant. Then they don't realize it.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can't go to zero to 100. There's a 10. There's a. There's something I can do with 10. There's something I can do with money. There's something I can do with 50, but no, it's zero to 100. And they got access to guns. It was one of my favorite scenes in Friday where Pops was talking to. He was like man. You know, people used to use this. This was all you needed. We're not advocating fighting. I want to make sure we say that we are not advocating that you just solve things by fighting.
Speaker 2:But I'd rather see this than guns and because that person can't come back. And then two people are gone at that point.
Speaker 1:And no one really thinks about it. And that, like you just said, nobody really thinks about that, and that's why dealing with grief is so. So it's so nowadays, not only just for young people, I would just say for older people too, because of our consumption of media, our thought process, when it comes to just death in and of itself, we don't respect it. I honestly think that we really don't respect it. I think that a lot of young people don't really I'm not going to say fear. We can say fear, because there is a healthy fear of death, but they don't respect it at all. So then, when it comes time to when you have to deal with it whether it's your mortality or somebody that you love's mortality you don't even know how to deal with it at all.
Speaker 1:You don't know what to think, because everything that you've been seeing in media video games, music or hearing in music, video games you know music or hearing in music or what it's normalizing oh, this is just what happens or what not, either you, you just go through it. But then when you go through it, it's different than what the TV portrays. It's different than what the video game portrays. It's different than what the. It's not just oh, I killed somebody and I moved on. You know my. I killed somebody and I moved on. You know my mama got killed and I moved on. It's not that easy just to move on. Now you have emotions and we don't deal. The media, the video games, the music does not show the emotional side of dealing with death. We don't respect it. Dealing with death, we don't respect it.
Speaker 2:So I wonder, like, if you like they have consultants for movies, for shows you know they bring in, you know, like, with Law and Order, you know you have what, is it lawyers and police as consultants? Would they be better if they also had mental health? People would say, okay, this is what you want in this scene, but you also need to address this. Have you thought about maybe highlighting for a second what that looks like? Would that make TV better? Or what.
Speaker 3:I was going to say, entertainment and reality are not the same thing. They mirror or they parallel when they need to, and they wouldn't have the ratings they had if they did everything like regular life. That's boring. So so sometimes it's regular life. Well, so to some people, yeah, they. I mean because if we had a show about mental health, I mean again, it's not until people are in crisis, it's not until people are going through something that they actually care about it. Let's be honest Even when all these celebrities normally donate to whatever campaign or whatever illness or whatever, they donate to it either when they have it or their child has it or somebody around them has it, their parent has it they don't.
Speaker 3:People don't care until they actually donate them. Sometimes they don't even want to see it. What is Parkinson's? I don't need to watch anything on Parkinson's, but if my mom or my dad now has Parkinson's now I want to donate all. I want all the research done now. So let me donate all my millions.
Speaker 3:But same thing with grief, sadness, until you actually lose someone close. Like Steve said, you can see it on TV, where everybody's seen funerals Everybody's old enough, who's been, you've seen. Even if you've never been to one, you've at least seen one, and it may not to you, it just may may just look like because picking up, because picking on my people. We have home goings, we have home goings. So if you go to that home going, it could be depending on who's doing it and where it is. I'll say it's very, not boring, whatever it is, whether it's positive energy or negative energy, because I've seen fights break out. I've seen the best concerts ever. Aretha Franklin's funeral how many hours was that? Eight, something crazy.
Speaker 3:But that doesn't show you anything about how to grieve. That doesn't teach you. We had a party, we had a home-going event. We celebrated the life of this person. Now how do we live without them? That part you don't get to see on TV. I'm using her, but it could be anybody If we could watch somebody go through the grieving process. If I'm not grieving and I can't share that experience or I can't relate, why would I want to watch it? Because I'm going back to if we put it out there. I personally believe it's not until people are actually going through it that they become interested. Again, it's not that the kids don't have the information, because they do we all here but do I really want that information right now if I don't feel I need it but do I really want that information right now if I don't feel I need it?
Speaker 1:See, here's the thing. Do we have the ability to still sympathize with people that are going through things? If we're not going through it being able to see somebody grieve a loved one do we still have the ability to feel something? Do we still have the ability to feel something? You know, do we still have the ability to? I'm seeing them extremely hurt right now, crying. Do we not tear up a little bit? Have we lost that sense of being a human being to where, when I see somebody really hurt and I'm sitting in that with them, do I, you know, am I able to still cut that off? Or am I able to still cut that off, or am I able to feel that as well? And I don't think that. I think that's one of the reasons we're starting to lose that. Think about it, even with the Black community. When was, let's just say, in the Black community, for media purposes, let's say, tv? What was the first death that we experienced on TV? What was the first death?
Speaker 3:The first death that we experienced on TV.
Speaker 2:What was the first death? The first death that we experienced on TV, you mean watching a TV show or somebody famous.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. The TV show in and of itself. There's a specific one that I'm speaking of.
Speaker 2:The 90s crack epidemic. They just had bodies and sheets all on the street.
Speaker 1:I would say for the black community being able, let's just say good times. Let's just say good times when the father was, when they told her, told the mother that Damn woman, damn woman.
Speaker 3:I'm sorry, what did?
Speaker 1:she do.
Speaker 2:I said she broke neck legs.
Speaker 1:I was about to say what did she do. Before that, though, what did she do?
Speaker 3:before that she was acting like she was good and everybody kept saying mama, you okay. She said I'm okay, mommy, you okay, I'm okay, mommy, you okay, I'm okay. I'm sorry that delivery was James Day. Yo, james is dead. The daddy he gone. They killed him. I hate y'all.
Speaker 1:But see, that's, that's.
Speaker 2:I fell asleep on the couch you know what. Yep, james dying, that was right.
Speaker 1:But that just taught us, hey, you keep it moving, you got things to do, you keep it moving and whatnot. But that also showed us, hey, you're not going to be able to keep it moving, you're going to keep it moving, you're gonna break when you break. This is how it comes out and that's what everybody remembers is the damn, damn damn, because it was so, it was so, it was so much by herself too, she was by herself and nobody ran back out after she broke it.
Speaker 2:It just went to. It just faded to black.
Speaker 1:I believe right no clapping, no clapping, no nothing, just silence. No clapping from the audience, just no nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I'm talking about the other characters they didn't come out to check on her, so she was dealing with this in her in her lonesome.
Speaker 3:No, I think I had to go back and watch, but I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 2:I don't think anybody came out because she just Then credits we have been conditioned to. I'll say this I still care. I may not feel it directly, but because of my relationship with the person going through it, I don't like seeing them say it, but I've come to realize that that is a is a natural emotion. You know, and I don't tell anybody. You need to get through it quickly, you know. However, you get through it when you get through. It is how you get through it, and I noticed that when people try to get people out of their sadness, it's not because they really want them to not be sad, it's because they don't want to be around that sadness we got to end up people just going to be sad.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you can't hide the fact if someone lost their mother, you can't hide the fact that you're going to go see your mom. Then that kind of just like I don't want to tell you where I'm going, I'm going to see my mom. It's life, but you still allow that person the freedom to express it Grief.
Speaker 3:That's a whole other topic. How do the comforters deal with comforting when, like you said, you got to walk on eggshells sometimes or you don't know what the landmines are. You don't even have to bring up. You don't even have to bring up I'm going to see my mom. You can say I'm going shopping for teddy bears. My mom and I used to shop for teddy bears. You don't know what's going to be the triggers. Like you said, sometimes it is the person it's not even the person that's grieving, it's the person who just doesn't know how to deal with that, because it can be hard Again when you're not personally in that space or you are detached. Let's say you have lost someone, but it was a few years ago and I've been there, but I'm kind of moved on and I don't want to go back Again. That's why I come see a professional, because everybody is not equipped to deal with grief and sadness. Everybody was going on with the government and people crying about their jobs. Everybody's not equipped to deal with that.
Speaker 3:A lot of people say, girl, I lost my job before, you will be all right. And while that may be true, that may not be the response that people are looking for Right now. Right, that might not be the response. People are looking for a need, like I'm about to be put out of a job today and I don't have a savings, I don't have a plan B and I'm scared. And people, girl, you're going to be all right and, like I said, god's got you, god's got you and it all may be true, but right now they're looking for somebody to at least empathize, like I said. So sometimes friends and family are not going to have that. They just not. They're not equipped with it or they don't even realize that that's what you need. They sometimes it's not even that they don't want to do it. They don't know that. Oh, you were looking for me to identify, connect and be empathetic. I'm just trying to encourage you and let you know God's got it all under control, which I believe, but sometimes we got a lot of people go through this process and talk it out and if you know, you're not the person being able to say that, I know some people who are terrible with words.
Speaker 3:They're terrible. They're not even when they go to churches. Like the churches don't put them at the door, you know how to have the greeters. The church is like, yeah, we're going to find something else for them to do because they don't have to. You don't need certain people to be the greeters because that's not their ministry. Some people are not meant to be the people who deal with grief and sadness in certain emotions. That's not their, that's not their ministry. Identifying that and knowing how to tell people that, listen, I feel you, you're going through a lot right now and I don't. I could do my best to help you, but I struggle in that area because I've been told people that what I may say may not be you.
Speaker 2:If the care and comfort team tells you we're good, I want to give up. I got a ministry, I love people. Yeah, brother Goodine, we good. You might want to go over to the deacons. I'm sure there's some area that needs policing. We good here on care and comfort, y'all only got two people. There's a reason. Care and comfort.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it's not everybody's ministry.
Speaker 2:Can it be taught? Can empathy and sympathy be taught this late in life?
Speaker 3:It can be taught. I believe you can teach. Domain is going to be executed, domain is going to be absorbed and performed. You can teach anything you want. So can it be taught? To some, yes, and then some just lack it. Personally, I believe some just don't. It's not there. You can teach them what it is, but for them to Left or right, because it depends.
Speaker 2:I always think you're thinking about a few select people.
Speaker 3:No, I'm thinking about a lot of people that I've talked to. I'm talking to a lot of people that I've talked to who just don't have it. Who just don't have it. That's not their ministry. They are void of empathy and sympathy and often are given the title sociopaths.
Speaker 2:Well, fellas, you know, this is only the tip of the iceberg. This is like, as Keith said, an onion that has many layers to peel back. We're just here to just bring awareness and, hopefully, if those who listen, if there's something that you've heard, we keep saying it in every episode, we're going to say it find a professional. Your friends can only do, but so much they can only take you, but so far we only have you know humor, you know the all that sucks that support.
Speaker 2:But when you really need the tools in order to navigate what is unknown and will become more frequent, you got to go invest in yourself more frequent. You got to go invest in yourself. And I say the word invest in yourself because it does cost. And if you look at the cost versus cost and investment is two different things. Investment is something that will build over time. It increases value. As you go to a professional, you're gaining the tools in order to help minimize the collateral damage of whatever traumatic experience that you go through, and trauma comes at so many different levels. People, so many different levels, many different levels, people, so many different levels. So go talk to someone professional, invest in yourself, use those health benefits. They're there for a reason.
Speaker 2:It's not just if you broke your arm finger or you got a rash or some type of disease. They also provide behavioral health support. So utilize it while it's at a discounted price, because it may be a time where you need it and it's not discounted. Thank you, guys. Before we end on a positive note, ah, let's see favorite movie from the past two years. I ain't gonna go that far back, so favorite movie from the past two years.
Speaker 2:I say past two years. I'll say for me, since I brought this question up, it was at the Marvel. Is it Infinity Wars? What was the last one? It was the one where Captain America picked up the hammer and I was like oh shit.
Speaker 1:I remember that one. You remember that one too, don't you, keith?
Speaker 2:you remember that one that must be an inside joke. Did he spoil the ending? What happened?
Speaker 3:I spoiled the ending.
Speaker 1:I said my bad.
Speaker 3:I said my bad.
Speaker 2:I said my bad. That was a dramatic experience.
Speaker 3:It was. I even know what he's talking about, yeah.
Speaker 1:You ever seen on TV where, like on a comedy show, you know, sitcom or whatnot, where somebody say something either funny or just all of a sudden just so crazy that the other person is drinking something and it's like a cloud of just mist of water that comes out their mouth. Yeah, that's what happened.
Speaker 2:That's exactly what happened alright, actually I'll change it because I watched part of it last night. It was that movie with she was in. Actually, I'll change it because I watched part of it last night. It was that movie with she was in Akilah and the Bee.
Speaker 3:What's the girl's?
Speaker 2:name.
Speaker 1:Now I have to look it up one of them days.
Speaker 2:There it is, um, and, and the only reason why I I like it is because of cat williams part in it, and if you haven seen it, it is one of those like just it's pure comedy. The premise is two ladies about to be evicted got to scrounge up, say, about $1,400 in a day in about like eight to 12 hours. So there's some shenanigans, that's going on, but they step into a, a check cashing place and just some of the stuff that was on the wall was was hilarious, even the interest rate. I won't go into it because I'm not. I'm not Keith, but yeah, one of those days, one of them days. I can't remember, but you know you should go check it out. If you just got an hour and a half and you just want some mindless entertainment, all right, jones, I gave you, I did my monologue. Give you some time to think. You know this ain't five, this is one within two years.
Speaker 3:No, I'm actually trying to switch. I was trying to think of something movies that I know it's two years, but I was trying to find a movie that dealt with grief Like my girl, the boy, macaulay Culkin got stung by all the bees and that I was actually trying to think of movies I've seen that actually deal with grief. What Would the Six that? Actually deal with greed.
Speaker 2:What Would the Sixth Sense deal with that? Oh, till, have you seen Till.
Speaker 3:I have seen Till. I guess that would, but everybody who yeah, everybody can't watch that one Can't watch that.
Speaker 3:Even the first two minutes I was like yeah, that's definitely that stomps on all the triggers. He's walking through and stomping on all the buttons. But again, it deals with trauma and grief that a lot of people still to this day carry. We act like a lot of that stuff happened hundreds of years ago. There's people still alive, like they're here to give their own testimony of events, so like it wasn't that long ago, but any case. But yes, while we need entertainment to separate and sometimes just laugh, sometimes entertainment that helps us again acknowledge where we are, we don't grief.
Speaker 3:Pieces are hard because we want to. We want to feel, but we don't want to feel. Sometimes we're not ready to be taken back to that. Or when we are grieving, to watch other people grieve only reminds us too that we are grieving. And if we still stuck or even if we are moving, it still can be hard because a lot of times we're moving just not at the pace that we want to be moving. I'm trying to think I did see something and I can't remember. I'm trying to remember what it was, but there was a movie that dealt with someone dying and the family having to come together to figure it out. It was actually a decent movie, but I cannot remember the title. It wasn't the Madea movie, even though I think she has one called Something in a Funeral. Tyler Perry got a bunch of movies out there. Grief is a regular fixture and it's not just death, it's grief and loss.
Speaker 2:Was it death at the funeral? Because there was two versions. There was one that had Martin and Chris Rock.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I saw that one too. Oh yeah, actually that was another comedic one, but yeah, there's ways.
Speaker 2:You got Marley and me.
Speaker 3:What's that?
Speaker 2:Marley and me. That was a loss of a pit.
Speaker 3:That was a yeah, so there are a bunch of them out there. I just my mind's just drawn a blank now. But yeah, it is because it's a regular fixture. But it is going back to the point you were making, that it is in the media, and so I think a lot of us learn to agree from what we see from those around us, but also from media. It's just not talked about on wider scales. It doesn't sell tickets like romance and comedy. Not at all, unless you make it a suspense thriller like Sixth Sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I asked AI and it gave me Sixth Sense, a Ghost Story. Manchester by the Sea, marley and Me, eternal Sunshine on a Spotless mind. We thought that wild is where the lady walked. The wilderness after her mother's death, the fault in our stars Room, and then five in the park. I don't know. All right, steve, what you got.
Speaker 1:Look, I don't think I've even seen any movies in the last two years that was worthy enough of just saying it's a really good movie.
Speaker 1:But to the same topic of something that Keith is talking about, I think a good movie that deals with the aspect of death, and not only. This is going to be weird, not only about how the person dealing with the person dying feels, but also how the person that died feels. I know, like I said, it's going to sound weird, but you guys remember that movie, ghost, with Patrick Swayze and Whoopi Goldberg yeah, goldberg, you got to see from Patrick's point of view about how he felt about RD, you know. So I believe he was going through the grieving process of, hey, I'm not here anymore, hey, my life is now moving on and the world is going on, x, y, z, and seeing all those particular things that he really couldn't change, even though he got to see them. So just even from that aspect, it gets people to think about like, hey, when I leave this earth, life goes on. These are the possibilities that can happen. So that's a, you know, my two cents on a movie that did great and actually for both sides of the car.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, cool. Well fellas any parting words. I'm going to shut this down. Reconvene in two weeks. We are scheduled two weeks, but if not sooner. No particular order. You got something to say to the people.
Speaker 1:It's okay to grieve. It's okay. That's what we're supposed to do. God didn't make us machines. He made us thinking, feeling, emotional human beings. God is an emotional God as well.
Speaker 2:My thing is, you know definitely we cannot hope to be more priceless if we shut off things that are, you know, so definitely something to tell us. All right.
Speaker 1:Jones got anything.
Speaker 3:If you are grieving, you are not alone. Go get some help. Um, getting through this process. It is an individual journey. Uh, you know, don't expect to grieve like everybody else. Um, you are gonna have people tell you if you don't do it this way or that way then you're wrong. But as long as it's not destructive to yourself, to to those around you, to the legacy of the love of the person that you are grieving, you know if you need to walk through this process, but you walk through backwards or sideways, as long as you get through. Everybody's not going to always understand it but, again, sometimes we do what we have to do to get to get through these moments.
Speaker 2:All right cool and as always, you know it's the iron table where iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men. Normally I'm not a beggar, but if you watch this, you know share it like subscribe it helps us to and even pose questions. If you're watching this, make a comment. It may give us something to talk about. It's kind of reading the TV's, but we like to give people what they want. We only know that if the people tell us what they want, there's no topic that we are off topic. We'll find a way to talk about it in our own unique way. But we are here as waiters to serve you with truth and accountability. Talk to somebody and just try to leave the world a little bit better than you found it, and just being you will achieve that. All right peace, thank you.
