The Iron Table
The Iron Table
Beyond Husband/Wife Status: The Continuous Elevation of Marriage
What does it truly mean to elevate someone to spouse status? In this thought-provoking episode, we dive deep into the misconception that marriage is simply a destination rather than the beginning of a profound journey.
The conversation begins when one host shares a question from an engaged couple he's counseling: "Is the highest level a man can elevate a woman to wife status?" This seemingly straightforward question ignites a powerful discussion about the nature of marriage beyond the honeymoon phase. We challenge the fairytale notion that marriage automatically leads to "happily ever after," revealing instead how committed relationships are designed to expose our character flaws and catalyze personal growth.
Throughout our discussion, we make crucial distinctions between potential and actual relationship growth. Many couples remain stuck seeing what their partner could become rather than accepting who they are right now. We explore the psychological trap of "sunk cost bias" – staying in unfulfilling relationships simply because we've already invested significant time – and offer practical guidance for determining when it's time to move forward versus when to part ways.
Perhaps most valuable is our conversation about establishing healthy communication boundaries. We share practical strategies for resolving conflicts, including creating a "statute of limitations" on past issues to prevent them from being weaponized in future disagreements. These tools create space for genuine healing rather than continuously reopening emotional wounds.
Whether you're single, dating, engaged, or married for decades, this episode offers profound insights about what it truly means to grow together. Subscribe now to join our journey of iron sharpening iron, as we navigate the complex terrain of relationships with honesty, vulnerability, and a commitment to continuous improvement.
Welcome to the iron table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. I'm your host, bryant, and I'm joined by my boys, keith Danny and Steve, and I'm joined by my boys, keith Danny and Steve. We are bringing you truth with a side of humor loaded with accountability and thought. We now bring you to our program Already in Progress. Welcome to the Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. Before I get into any of this, I gotta do the housekeeping items. So the Iron Table doesn't own the rights to any music used during its segments. We appreciate the talents and crafts of the musicians and only use their music to honor their gifts. If you're watching, of course you can find us on YouTube, but we're also on Apple podcast, google podcast, amazon music Just search for the Iron Table and, of course, if you want to listen to us audibly, we can also be found on our Buzzsprout site.
Speaker 2:All right, now that the housekeeping stuff is done again, brian, my brothers Keith Danny and Steve, we're going to bring you a little bit of truth. Got my brothers Keith Danny and Steve. We're going to bring you a little bit of truth, hopefully a lot of humor, and hopefully you can walk away with just a little bit more knowledge than when you came. What we like to do before we really get into the meat of things is to kind of just do a check in. It's been about two weeks since we last spoke and I know the last. I got to thank my brothers again. Uh, the last uh podcast was a therapy session for me. They did not charge me a copay, um, they allowed me an opportunity to vent, um, to share my truth, and I appreciate that. But since then there's been some other stuff. So just go around the circle or around the square and say what's what's been some other stuff. So just go around the circle or around the square and say what's been going on, hopefully something good. If it's been bad, hopefully you addressed it. If it's funny, hopefully you were able to laugh at it. So I'll start tomorrow. I'll go into the office after about 14, 15 years being able to work from home using telework. It wasn't because of the pandemic, it was because of the work that I do. It can be done at home, and it was not a right. It was a privilege that I earned, based on Past year's performance. But now, because of the directive from our administration, we are to be in the office. So Tomorrow I'll be in the office, um.
Speaker 2:But last week, um, bishop Jones came over, um, and he and my wife I think it was Thursday, right Thursday they looked at my home office and you can see some of the decorations, the pictures, the speakers, uh, tv, you know a nice little setup.
Speaker 2:And one of the first things they said was oh, what color are you going to paint your accent wall? And I was like man, I ain't even finished work that day and already these people that have their own businesses are pushing us home, working feds, out of our home office and ready to take over, and ready to take over. So I thought that was kind of funny, because my wife and I have been laughing about that, just in general, just how this will now be her office and I'll go back to cubicle world. So I thought that was a good swan song to what's been an enjoyable ride and I still love my work. I still love my job and still think that it's helpful. Tomorrow will be an adjustment. If I'm not smiling, if I'm like this, y'all just give me some grace, because it's different going in on a Monday than just going in on a Tuesday or Thursday.
Speaker 3:That's a lot, bro. You might need a therapy session on that one piece. I'm on mute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, it's been decent over here on my end Just rocking the dad life for my three adult children. They're, you know, as they get older and bigger, so do their expenses, and so we're grateful for the ability to help and contribute. But we also eagerly await the day and the time where I will be coming to visit their house and smooching off of them for my latter years. Yeah, we're able to just. Hey, you guys, it's your turn, but no, it's it's been good.
Speaker 3:It's been good. I'm, I'm blessed that um. My son recently passed his personal trainer um certification. He got a job doing that and that's been a goal he's wanted to do for a while. My daughter has given the two thumbs up for her graduation, for her undergraduate, as she pursues her career in dentistry. My other son, he's working diligently and in school. So I'm blessed, I can't complain.
Speaker 2:That's cool. Kind of reminds me real quick before we go to the next. That's cool, that's what's up. Kind of reminds me real quick before we go to next. This week or last week we took Deuce to Chili's and normally he's a what is he? A nuggets and fries guy. He's everywhere if you can get chicken, nuggets and fries. So we told him like, nah, you're not getting that. He then decides to get fajitas and not one meat, two meat. He was like I want the chicken and steak. I'm like this dude, I'm looking at the cost. I almost got myself a grilled cheese sandwich just to make things bounce out. But yeah, kids, we're just planting deposits in order to get a greater return later on in life. Know, lord willing most definitely.
Speaker 1:Um, everything's been chill over here. Uh, um, I've actually been trying to slow down and you know, get back into my creative endeavors and whatnot. So been chill, man, everything's been been good definitely good, steve, look like you're kind of bouncing.
Speaker 2:Are you playing like an avatar or something?
Speaker 1:I'm in this expensive massage chair that I bought my girl. If anybody saw the last episode. Yeah, it came to fruition. I'm not a spring chicken anymore, as they say you can't be doing all them acrobatic moves that you used to do back in your 20s. You gotta stretch you gotta make them supplements before, anticipate that pain and I got some nerve to try to be back on a motorcycle.
Speaker 4:I told you, I told you Is that a?
Speaker 2:low rider though.
Speaker 1:Do you need to move over to a cruiser? I got really a cruiser, but I got one that's up right. I got a crotch rocket too, but here's the thing about slowing down. I'm thinking about Monday or Wednesday buying another crotch down. I'm thinking about Monday or Wednesday buying another crotch rocket, but I'm thinking I'm slowing down, I may not. I may not. I don't need it. I need to slow down. I need to focus on other stuff. Good luck, Stay tuned.
Speaker 4:Me too. I like you guys chilling over here, juggling everything back, like Steve said, back to the arts or the work, and there's, like Danny said, raising kids and dealing with work, like you said. Now we know that's your wife's office. You just keeping it warm until tomorrow.
Speaker 2:I'm going to hold this hostage. Change your tune. I'm going to hold this hostage.
Speaker 4:She coming in with the tape measure today while you sitting there, she's just going to measure over top of you. You can stay there. You can stay there. Okay, I'm done. I, I'm done, I'll be back, and so, and then, yes, they are more expensive. All everything, everything they do, is more expensive. And steve, we know that chair, we know who that chair is for. It's like, baby, I'm giving you a bowling ball.
Speaker 4:Nah, I know you got it, I'm joking, but hey, it's there, it's there. I'm ready for my chair, but no, because I could use it. I could use it, I could use it. You know, I think I will at some point, because I would love to just be able to sit down and just, it's just right there. It's just right there, it's just right there.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, I've been over people's houses where they have them and I lock in, I lock in and every week, every time, I say I'm going to invest in one of these, but I don't know why you came in that chair. Okay, the way this chair worked, I didn't care exactly. When I say, when I say whatever, it wasn't one of, yeah, this chair was good, it was good like I sat in that chair from the, the neck down to the spine, lower, like backs, I felt like I don't know, I feel better getting up the whole circulation, everything just felt better. So I'm like I don't I might have to mess with one of these, with kids and a wife in the house. I know I can say this is my chair. I already know why is my chair wet? So yeah, we here, though we already here.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, we here though we are here, so I only had a couple questions. But before we do that, it's very rare that Steve tells us in the green room or in the black room and then he got a question, so I'm going to take my hands off the off the board and turn it over.
Speaker 1:To turn it over to the right reverend um, as soon as I heard this question, I immediately thought of y'all, you know this, this is definitely a good question. Um, I got a uh, it's, it's came. This came by way of one of my couples that are recently been engaged or getting married and at this point right now I think they're buying a house, all those things, but my work with them now is to talk about what happens when all of these new things are done, when the house is bought, when the wedding is done, when all these things are settled and you know all these great things that we're preparing for they actually come to fruition, and now we're just doing the day-to-day thing.
Speaker 1:So I'm talking to them about, hey, what does it mean to live with each other day-to-day after the newness and the excitement or you know, the honeymoon phase, as some people call it is over, and I can't remember who said it. I don't remember if it was the man or the woman, I can't remember exactly who said it, but they were stating that the highest level that a man can elevate a woman is to wife status. What do you guys think about that? Do you believe that the highest that a man can elevate a woman is to wife status? What do you guys think about that? Do you believe that the highest that a man can elevate a woman, or bring up a woman, is to the status of a wife? And if a man then does make his woman his wife, has he done his part? Is that it?
Speaker 3:I don't know that I would agree with that, just because it goes back to this fanciful notion. And they lived happily ever after, as if the goal is marriage. It's the happiness jackpot. Who wouldn't want to get married? I'll be happy forever after Sign me up right away. And then you get married and it's like hey, where'd my happiness go?
Speaker 4:They didn't say this in the brochure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, no, no, exactly. I personally believe that those higher levels of fulfillment come from walking in purpose and one of my favorite authors, stephen Covey, who's the author of Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He recommends that every family have a mission statement. It's actually a book that's entitled something about family how to write your family mission statement. That's entitled something about family how to write your family mission statement.
Speaker 3:And so it denotes the the, the fact that there needs to be a journey, needs to be a purpose to what it is you're constantly doing. And so, as you're elevating, there's no end. You don't graduate. It's like not to get all spiritual and stuff, but justification versus sanctification, where you have, okay, I'm saved from my sin, but now what? I just live in the old kind of way. No, you got to increasingly grow in grace. You have to get better and better. You have to be pursuing this life. That is going to be a reward in and of itself, uh, when you're living it the right way. So I don't know, but I would not personally say that just making someone a wife is the highest round of elevation that can be ascertained.
Speaker 2:That's just like you know what Do you know, what Can a woman make herself a wife?
Speaker 1:And that's the thing I remember. Who said it before? I believe it was the woman, because I then proceeded to ask her well, after he makes you his wife, then his job is done right. And she didn't answer the question. That's saying that making someone a wife is a one-time thing.
Speaker 4:It is the journey of a lifetime listen, it's like saying once you, president, because we all know, we all know the time and day we live in because you've been appointed the president.
Speaker 4:You technically, once upon a time that was the highest role that everybody. When I grow up, I want to be president and that used to be a role that, like people wanted. Now, because of the mockery, because we find out that sometimes you just some, some wives, are just figureheads, they not really like, they're not growing, they're not learning, they're not, they're not doing what they need to do to be a good wife, a healthy wife. Are they supportive? Again, we got married for the stuff. We got married for the party.
Speaker 4:We wanted the day yeah so after that, I don't care about any of investing in our future, or I don't care about learning what it means to truly be a wife. I just wanted the party and the storybook ending that they learn doesn't exist. You got to work for that. Just because you slid on the ring is not like sliding on a glass slipper and the princess is going to remember who you are and the frog is going to kiss you, or whatever happens in all these stories. Listen, it's work involved. So even though he can marry her and give her that title, like Danny said, there's stuff that needs to be done after that.
Speaker 2:Do we? Because, as as men, we acknowledge that going from you know boyfriend to husband, that is a jump and we're learning. It's one thing to watch other adults you know in their marriages, but to be in it it is a jump, and we're learning. It's one thing to watch other adults you know in their marriages, but to be in it, it is a constant learning. Is that the same for for wives, in learning on the fly that we would want, as husbands, providing?
Speaker 3:doing all that stuff, that all the husbandry things. I'll put it this way Like, for me, I've told all the couples and stuff that I've worked with, and even in my materials if you're not growing, there's only one other alternative. That's it. And so you have to be on a continual journey of personal growth and development and you're going to discover along the way things that you suck at Like full transparency, at like full transparency.
Speaker 3:I'm having some, some conversations that, um, this past week, and it's just like you know why? Why are we not connected? Like what, what's happening? And it's like okay, I think I'm kind of smart, I know you're kind of smart, but something happens in everyone's relationship that requires you to elevate, requires you to grow, and if you're not growing, there's only one other alternative. You have to be pursuing something, otherwise you become stagnant and will begin to, by default, atrophy into something that nobody wants, and this is how couples get together. Everybody Miles Monroe puts it this way. He's like do not get married because of love. Everybody who divorced got married because of what it?
Speaker 3:is that they call love. That's not enough.
Speaker 4:That's not enough.
Speaker 3:No, that's the dumbest reason in the world to get married. And don't get me started on R&B songs. We ain't getting no younger, it's just like come on man, get that mess out of here.
Speaker 2:Stop attacking the R&B song.
Speaker 3:Stop attacking the R&B song. We could do a whole episode on them.
Speaker 2:It's the way to go in Keith's top five.
Speaker 4:But that's not. I'll tell you that's not on there. That song is not on nowhere near my. I wouldn't even, because the philosophy or the concept of the song is. We know it's stupid, but we'll crank that thing up, thank you.
Speaker 3:Bruno Mars. He got closest to the reality. I'm looking for something dumb to do, you know, and it's just like.
Speaker 4:I think I want to marry you. I think I want to marry you.
Speaker 2:I think we talked about growth, but is growth something that is always easy, like that you can visibly, easily see? Visibly, because what, if? I mean, if we think about like viruses, they grow, and it may not be that it's just instantaneous, it may be no, it's not going to be, we don't grow instantaneous.
Speaker 4:So so growth, growth isn't instantaneous. Growth takes time for some things. Now there are some things. You got to see fruit. Jesus went to the fig tree and wanted to see it look like it bore're growing. But if you this is the problem I see with spouses that that have you know they're married to addicts and sometimes they'll they'll see genuine growth. Um, and then there's relapse, and relapse is sometimes a part of not sometimes relapse can be a part of treatment. Where this person makes it this far, they relapse and they start over and they, over time, they might actually get it. But does that mean that they're not trying? No, does that mean that they're not changing? Not necessarily. Like I said, they had to do something to maintain that sobriety for the time that they did. So there's change happening. Do they struggle to maintain it forever? Possibly, probably, yeah, because it's a part of them. So, more than likely, yes, but the reality is it doesn't mean they're not changing Again. That's where that grace comes in, and you got to figure out what is going on.
Speaker 1:So do you think that it's a big difference between growth and potential? Because what I see is that a lot of, um, a lot of couples, and especially, I would say, more, more or less more likely women than men, uh, women are with men where they it's. It's just a bad, it's a bad decision to even be together, but I'm sticking with this because I see potential in him, I see that he could do this, I see that or she could do that, and it's almost as if now we're trying to make somebody be somebody that they're not, because we see this potential and we're just in a messed up situation. So do you feel like growth is almost the same as potential or it's similar? No, it's. It's no similar. No, it's not.
Speaker 3:I'll add. The one thing that that I'll also add to that steve is we have this thing called sunk cost bias, where you you've put so much time into it. It's like this has to work. Now I've been with him the last four or five years, but I'm gonna start over and and then I'll be 45 by the time I know somebody long enough to to get married, and so you got people who um will, just because they've spent so much time in something. This has to work and it's beating a dead horse, because potential is not the same as growth. In order for there to be growth, there has to be sustained progress over time. Potential is always there. It's like people in the gym. Can a fat person get unfat themselves? Potentially, yeah, absolutely. Can they lose weight? Absolutely. Everyone has the potential to lose weight. Stop eating them donuts, like. Put them down.
Speaker 1:And then you gotta put in the work.
Speaker 3:No, but then you have to put in the work. This is the thing that most people don't know how to do in the context of romantic relationships, Because they think that trying hard equates to doing the work. You ever seen somebody do dumb stuff in the gym? He's like what in the world are they doing? They're doing something. Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2:Maybe they're doing the best that they know. How Is that?
Speaker 3:good enough.
Speaker 2:It probably is For their end goal. For their end goal, though, for their end goal.
Speaker 3:Like I'm trying to unfat myself and here I am doing. I was trying not to call names, but I was going to call names that three of us know from growing up. But they would do certain workouts, but they weren't really doing the workout in PE class and so it's like okay, if you're not doing the workout, can you expect to unfat?
Speaker 2:yourself Like, no, you're not going to get the results. The son is a personal trainer. That's where you have somebody come in and sometimes, if I don't know that I'm messing up or that I'm fattening myself or being counterproductive, you know, running four games of basketball but then turn around eating four slices of pizza undoing the four games of basketball, unless someone comes to me and says, hey, not that I'm doing it wrong, but there's a better way to do it. Then I might hear and be willing to adjust. But a lot of us or not a lot of us, not us, but a lot of people in general the way they are approached if they hear you're doing this wrong, they've already gotten defensive. But see, here's the thing I'm going to get defensive.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing, too At what point do we throw the white flag up and say you know what I'm done, this is it, I quit. Here's what happens when the delusional mind starts to set in. It's because, well, I've been with this person for so long, I put in all this work.
Speaker 4:This person has potential, and I don't want to leave them, because then if I leave them, then they're doing good, they're doing all the things that I wanted them to do.
Speaker 1:I'm going to feel a certain type of way. At what point do we cut our losses and just say, hey, you know what, enough's enough, even. Hey, good luck to you on the next.
Speaker 2:On the next one that's when, when you hit rock bottom is when the public finds out all that you've done and it's not your family, it's not your friends because we believe that our family and friends are going to be with us no matter what, because of that long term building of relationship but it's when the public finds out that you've messed up. And then when you finally, when you reach that rock bottom that could be the person is constantly cheating on you. They done slapped you in public, called you all types of names, you walked in on a conversation, what have you? That's when a person is ready to just give up. It's not that they want to give up, it's that they're so embarrassed that they have no choice, in order to save face, to say that's it, I can't do no more. And, that said, that it takes someone else's viewpoint of you to get you to stop doing something that you know deep down inside.
Speaker 2:There's a there's a part in what is it? One of them, dmx, where it says says and I like it says I love the kid ain't yours, everybody know. And he says I love my baby mama. I never let her go, jesus, that's all right, that's how we don't. I don't know where we stopped valuing ourselves to stand up for ourselves and are hoping that others come in to do it for us, because it might work, it won't work.
Speaker 2:We don't know. Only person that can make you do something is yourself. Because if I had secret power, if I had that power, I would have used it a long time ago. Not in my marriage. My marriage is great.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that disclosure we will try to dig our way to China with a spoon. It won't stop. It will not stop. It will waste our lives digging to China with a spoon in our backyard and it won't stop. We'll not raise that right foot.
Speaker 2:We don't want to admit that we made the mistake.
Speaker 1:That's part of it. Yeah, I think it's a little bit deeper than that too. I don't know. It's just that I'm. I guess I'm right, or again. It's also that whole moniker of I don't want anybody else to reap yes. I don't want anybody else to reap yes.
Speaker 2:I don't want anybody else to reap the benefits.
Speaker 3:What benefits? Well, no, let's talk about that, because the reality is, a lot of times you're with somebody and then the thing that you want them most to change, you leave them. For then they get with the next person and then they change the thing that you always wanted them to change and it for. Then they get with the next person and then they change the thing that you always wanted them to change and it's just like you feel some type of way about that. That happens often.
Speaker 4:This is like okay, all the time yeah I have people sit down with me all the time to to rehash what this guy or this girl is now doing, that it took, that they could not get them to do, but all of a sudden, now that they're in this new relationship, they want to act like they've been doing this the whole time. Now he went. Now he want to act like he know how to handle money. Or now she want to learn how to control her mouth. She didn't control like she. She cussed me out every day and now she over there sitting all submissive and quiet that person, allowed that person to do all those things.
Speaker 2:They didn't hold them accountable. There were no checks and balances.
Speaker 1:Well, the reason why they broke up is because in that situation, he did it.
Speaker 2:That's why I had him do it.
Speaker 1:But that's why we're selfish, though. We're selfish in thinking that the change is for us and us alone. That's why we, you know, as human beings, we're selfish. The change shouldn't be for you and them in that relationship. It should be for them as a person, and if they do it with somebody else and you're not with them, hey, so be it. Keep it moving.
Speaker 4:It wasn't in God's plan. This goes back to the original question of you again, and we're looking at growth. Is the growth for us? Is I mean in marriage the growth is for both of us, but sometimes, again, certain situations it's for like we reap the benefits when our spouses grow, but again, just like with us, they they're on our tails, they're on our tails. They're on our tails about stuff, they're on us too about stuff.
Speaker 2:So if it's not for us though. If it's not for us, then how can we see their growth? If it's not for us and it's supposed to be- we benefit from it.
Speaker 4:But there are things I will say is not for us per se, but there are some things that it's for your benefit per se. But there are some things that it's for your benefit. I mean even some of the stuff that Jesus did when he kept telling them have faith. I'm coming down here to show you how to live for your benefit, Like because you guys need to get this or you need to learn this, and, yes, I'll benefit because God will get. I mean, in his case, God will get the glory, but you guys still need to learn.
Speaker 4:So same thing with us. They teach, wives teach, teach us things. Or we learn to be more emotionally present with the with. You know, with a good wife, she's going to teach you how to, she can teach. But we got to do our part to as men. We got to do our parts to be, to learn how to be more emotionally available to them, to our children and and to ourselves. That all of that isn't done on the surface all the time. Like you said, those are those intangible things that sometimes we're learning as we go. The fruits are we learn how to talk to them. On that level. We speak. As I say we speak their language a little bit. I don't feel like we ever master it like they want us to.
Speaker 4:But we at least learn how to speak a little bit where they could tell he listening to me today, um, but the benefit is for us because it teaches us. I know learning how to talk to my war, my, my wife, has also helped me learn how to talk to my daughters and vice versa. When I want to go in and cuss my wife out, I think sometimes how would I talk to my daughter in this position? Because I wouldn't cuss at her, I wouldn't scream at her. So I go ahead and sometimes vice versa. But then sometimes, when an adult, you can have a grown-up conversation where you don't have to say things so gently and sometimes you do, depending on who you're married to Some people have all kinds of traumas and are very triggered by certain conversations. So sometimes we do have to approach them like you would approach your own child. But but if you don't even approach your own child correctly, you're not going to approach your spouse correctly, and vice versa.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a great discussion, though like it was something I was gonna say but I forgot.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, brian so in the reverse of that question is does a woman elevate a man to husband status?
Speaker 3:no, never, no just completely don't even answer that period don't even ask the rest of that question wait a minute.
Speaker 1:Wait a minute why not why?
Speaker 2:not Shut that down. We about to lose some women now.
Speaker 4:He gave you the Kimbae. No, no, no, no, okay, no, no, no, no, bring that over here.
Speaker 2:No, but seriously, I mean we can't become husbands without women there's no marriage.
Speaker 3:until a man decides okay, I'm going to be a husband. Now a woman is at the mercy of a man when it comes to like all right, whether or not they're going to get married.
Speaker 4:In my opinion, no, no, that's fact. That's fact. It was usually we that propose and we that we provide we provide access to relationships.
Speaker 2:We provide access relationships. We provide access, but they are the confirmation though, because we can ask all we want. We've dealt with rejection.
Speaker 3:That's the part that's the name of the game.
Speaker 4:No, they can provide access to themselves. And again because unfortunately.
Speaker 3:We know what they provide access to.
Speaker 2:There's a reason why my camera is this wide and the rest of them are this way Narrow folks.
Speaker 4:No, it's what happens. Because what happens to those men who get rejected? They move to the next one, they move to somebody who's ready. So if a man decides I'm getting married by Wednesday, I can't guarantee him the first or second woman will say yes, but out of ten one of them will. Even if he's psycho crazy, got all kinds of issues, somebody will say yes, I just want to be married.
Speaker 1:I just want to be married. I just want to be married. He doesn't become a husband
Speaker 2:until she says yes. What did you say, Brian? I said he doesn't become a husband until she says yes. She doesn't become a wife until he asks.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but see a guy can get so many different girls to say yes, so it's like he can become a husband anytime he wants for the most part.
Speaker 1:But if all of those women said no, someone has to say yes, yes it's semantics, but if I don't see here, but here's the thing I challenge anybody to start thinking about that that the question about does somebody, whether it be a husband or wife, elevate the other choice to the particular spouse?
Speaker 1:Does that have to do with the other person or does that have to do with you and how you treat or think about that other person? So when I say that, if I felt like, if I'm elevating my girlfriend to my wife, I think for me that has more to do with me than it is. Well, this is my personal opinion. That has more to do with me than it is. Well, this is my personal opinion. It has more to do with me than it has to do with her, because now I'm putting her in, I am thinking about her in a certain way that is no longer like my girlfriend. There's certain things, certain qualities of how I treat her, how I go about things, how I do business. Now that is about her and it's not so much about what she's going to be doing, but now what I'm going to be doing, now that I, in my head, elevated her to my wife. But everybody don't think like that.
Speaker 2:We're supposed to be elevating each other. If we're partners, we're supposed to both go up.
Speaker 1:That's why I say so, then can a woman then elevate her boyfriend to a husband, with that concept of how she thinks about this person now being her husband instead of her boyfriend.
Speaker 4:I use elevate synonymously with improve, and are we using them the same? Because, if you're asking, can a woman help? Okay, because I'm trying to, I guess better understand.
Speaker 3:Trying to get past the semantics.
Speaker 4:Yeah, because is it that are was saying that he, when we say elevate his status, are we talking about? What's the definition of elevate? I guess in this case is it meaning improve, can she help him improve as a man? Or is it just elevating him with? With title?
Speaker 1:I guess I'm trying to understand what we and that can be looked at in different ways. You're right. You know it can depend on the person we all need to define that right now.
Speaker 2:So I'll start. When I hear elevate, I'm hearing that you are setting me above the rest. That means I'm not on the same level as all these other boyfriends, all these other dates, all this other. I am at a level where I have access to things that they don't have access to I have. I don't need a key card or code when I go to Reese and open that door. That door opens that door. It might be cracked, it might be closed sometimes, but I can still open it without having to go through, I guess, the different levels to go up there. That's what I think about, elevate, because I don't treat any other woman like I treat my wife. I am setting you. You shouldn't have to say you shouldn't, steve? We all know that. I'm telling you, but that's where she is and that's where she will be. There's no one else who will have that level of access. That's what I think about Elevate. Y'all are welcome to divine any other way, but I can't bring her up there until she says yes to my proposal.
Speaker 4:She can't get up there until I ask for her right and that's why I was hearing, because how I feel like what I was hearing was two different definitions or meanings being explained of Elevate. So that's why I asked, because that was different. Versus change, like you said, can a woman help him develop or change and be a husband? And that's a whole nother question. You grow together, but at the same time it's like it goes back to the the conversation.
Speaker 4:Can a woman raise a boy to be a man? She can raise a, she can raise them, but there's certain things that he has that that little boy had to do or be around to get from other men, and I think I believe being a husband is the same thing. There are things that she's going to teach you as as a wife, um, that you didn't have before, just being in each other's space, but then there are things that, as a husband, I see you need sometimes you need to get that same. You need to get that counsel for some older men who've been there, done that. So that's why I wanted the definition, so I can understand what was being said. So all right, thanks. What is your definition? I mean understand what was being said, so all right, thanks, what is your definition?
Speaker 2:I mean, what's your definition?
Speaker 4:Keith, no, that's it. That's it was because I understood both, so I was trying to, but my understanding, like I said, I had a woman. What was your question?
Speaker 2:Like that Just like the reverse. As you know, was can a can a man, you know, bring a woman up to wife status? Can a woman bring a husband up I mean a man up to husband status?
Speaker 4:and if you mean just like the proposal and the exception, then yes, any man can oppose, propose, any woman can propose, but there's a level of anybody could be a wife or husband by definition, but a good wife or a healthy wife or a healthy husband, a good or a healthy relationship, no, not just anybody can do that, because if you're coming in again I said, if your motives are impure when you're going in, you can't bring anybody anywhere. You can't bring anybody anywhere. All you can bring is pain and frustration and sorrow, sorrow.
Speaker 2:And bitterness of soul Gnashing of teeth, gnashing of teeth, gnashing of teeth, gnashing of teeth, gnashing of teeth.
Speaker 4:You will be, weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Speaker 3:A living hell. That's what we're saying. If it's not clear, oh you beat me to it Living hell. So hell is death, but this is a living hell, living hell.
Speaker 4:Living, oh my God, walking through, breathing through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, fire, fire and brimstone. And if I can say this, because I remember the thought while Keith was expounding on that that I think for me, especially being on the other side of divorce and in between my next marriage, I know that what my criterion has been there's no attribute more important than somebody who is on a personal growth and development journey themselves, like outside of me Because if they are not actively growing into a better person, if that's not a value system that they possess, then what do I expect when we get married?
Speaker 3:Exactly, this is just the way that I am, so okay, and that's it, yeah. Nah, the most important attribute, I think, that anyone can find in a potential life partner is whether or not they're growing, because if they're not actively growing as a person, then your relationship is going to be one where one of you is right where you've always been. The other one is starting to move in a different direction.
Speaker 2:And that gap of death eventually yeah it's eventually going to wear and tear.
Speaker 3:Real quick.
Speaker 2:What about environment? Because we know that. I mean, if you think about the parable of the seeds sower and the seeds, there were certain the seeds were good. It wasn't a question of if the seeds were good, but the foundation that the seeds were dropped on. So could somebody who's in a bad environment and you made and we talked about potential Could? Is it worth taking someone from a bad environment, putting them into a good environment because you see the potential and and there's growth? Or do we look at that and be like I don't know if I want to invest Case by case?
Speaker 4:Case by case Case by case.
Speaker 1:How much are you willing to lose how?
Speaker 2:much are you willing to?
Speaker 1:lose, just like when you go to the casino hey, you know what, I got $20 with me. I'm willing to lose $10 and be okay with it. Now, if you lose the $10 and you're mad about it you know what it was hey, $10. And you're mad about it? Hey, you should have. You know what it was? Hey, $10, that's it. I'm going to put $10 in, fine, you know. But if you put more in, more than $10, hey, guess what? That's kind of your fault.
Speaker 1:But understand your limits, though. Know what you're willing to lose, know what you're willing to sacrifice for this to happen and the potential for it not to come to fruition. You know sometimes, and be honest with you, you know, looking at past, even past relationships, it may have not been in God's will for me to be in that person's life forever. Maybe we're supposed to be only together for two or three years and learn certain things from each other and go our separate ways, and then to be a better person for the one that God wants us for. You've got to be OK with that notion right there. That person was not for me, but the thing that I learned from that person is for the person that God has for me, so that I can keep this blessing.
Speaker 3:That's it, that's good.
Speaker 2:I can go to things like God told me to leave you because yeah.
Speaker 3:Anytime.
Speaker 2:We got some friends who like you do that if you want to yeah, but that whole god, god told me that's a whole nothing yeah, yeah, god told me just just putting it out there. Yeah no, it's true so everybody wasn't meant to be here long time we've been talking about men kind of you know giving grace to women. What grace do we need?
Speaker 2:Because, yeah, because I mean, just as we've got to move and just and pivot and and learn, and, and we want them to do that what are we willing to either shed, what are we willing to pick up? How much? I mean we got to talk about the, the converse side, you know. What are we willing to do? What are we willing to accept grow shed? Come on, someone, tell me something.
Speaker 3:I'll say, like old habits and patterns, like you aren't Jesus and there are things that you need to change. And so you won't know what you need to change until you're in that relationship and it's nails on the chalkboard, like I heard a couple people talk about how marriage is not God's way of making you happy, it's His way of making you holy. It's going to agitate those parts of you you don't even know needed changing.
Speaker 3:And it's supposed to yes, that's what it's designed to do, and so that's why it's important for both parties to kind of have a growth mindset in terms of all right, this is not just the way that I am. If I need to change, when Nathan the Prophet comes up to me and is like yo, bruh, you'll be able to be like yeah, that's me, that's on me. I need to get my life together because we all have those moments, and so I think both parties need to have that in order to have a relationship that can grow into a love that lasts a lifetime.
Speaker 2:Do we easily accept correction?
Speaker 3:No, we hate it, but we need it.
Speaker 4:I know there's some men who hate it too, but I dare say it, I don't care. Be mad. I think it's harder for a lot of women to accept it. They don't want it.
Speaker 3:Say that again. Say it for the people in the back.
Speaker 4:I said what I said. I believe we as men sometimes have a hard time with it, but we're okay, we get through it. Man, a lot of these women just don't want it, they don't want to hear it, they don't. That accountability piece for them is hard.
Speaker 1:I don't know why, but Let me give you a tip, let me give everybody a tip. Man, let's just say men and women, when somebody is giving you constructive criticism, please don't feel like there's now the time for you to give them constructive criticism on something that you think, because if that is the case, you would have brought it up before they gave you constructive criticism. So when somebody gives you constructive criticism, just remember my thing is just stop, stop and listen. That's it. Bring up your grievances at another time.
Speaker 4:You can still bring them up but just not now.
Speaker 1:Just not now, because that is a surefire way to get off the topic of you.
Speaker 4:That's one of them things that I believe and I agree and I know it sounds good, but for some people, as soon as you say you burnt the toast this morning, it's going to be well.
Speaker 4:You will you yesterday and last week, and so I'm like well you well you well, yesterday and last week, and so I'm like well, listen, I was just letting you know that you burned a toast today and you know I'm just trying to have a conversation about you know you might be stressed or not. You know is the toaster broken. I just want to know if there's something else going on.
Speaker 3:So I got a question If you got an IEP there, how much is the co-pay?
Speaker 1:But see, this is what I make couples do. I said y'all have to get to me. I got one couple working on this. Now you guys have to get together to have an understanding of if something happened in the past, what is your time frame of that. Have let it, we've talked about it, we've let it go and we're not going to bring it up again.
Speaker 1:Some people's 30 days, some people's 60 days, some people's a year. So I say, if it's 30 days, if it happened 29 days, it's fair game, but after tomorrow guess what? You've got to shut up about it. So stop bringing it up.
Speaker 1:So you said easier said than done. But the practice of it makes it easier. It's. It's easier to say I'm gonna shoot a three, uh, three-pointer, and never have any reference of how to do it. Easier said than done, right, but with practice it becomes, you know, second nature. Just say, hey, you know what? No, I'm not gonna bring that up. Yes, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna shut up, I'm gonna be quiet because this is my spouse. I'm gonna give them the patience and grace that I don't give anybody else and listen to what they're saying and I'm going to shut up and be like, okay, you know what. That takes a lot, but you got to practice.
Speaker 4:You have to practice, but we live in a society where some people believe that it shouldn't happen. I don't have to shut up. That's my man and whatever I feel I should have to say. Did you know when you're going?
Speaker 1:to shut up. Did you know when you're going to shut up? When you're going to shut up, when you're going to shut up, when you're going to shut up yeah, there ain't nobody in there to argue with, they're going to be gone.
Speaker 4:But there was a guy who was writing a book. It took him and even after, like the whole time I know she was excited the first year. She's a little less excited the second year, year three or four. It wasn't supposed to take this long Because by his timeline, his initial promise, his timeline, two years to write this book. So it took four, almost five, right. So he finally got it done. But even after he got it done, he still had to listen to. Well, it still took you this long and you like, you, like again. Like you said, at what point should she just been grateful and happy he accomplished his goal? Meanwhile she's been in school seven years undergrad.
Speaker 2:I'm going to use your story. He told her that it would be two years right.
Speaker 4:So he told her it was going to be two years. That was his plan, his theory coming into it. It's going to take me two years, right. So he told her it was going to be two years. That was his plan, his theory coming into it. It's going to take me two years to do this.
Speaker 2:Okay, so in between year one, if he knew that it wasn't going to happen, did he go back and update that?
Speaker 4:Yes, Because she would ask and he would tell her. But I will say a lot of times she had to initiate the conversation. Say what, and he would tell her, or or, but I will say a lot of times she had to initiate the conversation, say what's going on with the book. And anybody who's ever worked on a any type of project I don't care if it's a book, a play, a music, taxes Sometimes your brain ain't brain like the, like you. You just sit down and it's just whatever. I say color, I think people. Well, I see, it's just. Sometimes it's black. I say color, I think people, I see, it's just. Sometimes it's black, I'll close my eyes, it's just a white, it's a white boy with nothing on it. So so sometimes, when you're working on things, you don't always have the motivation or the ideas. But in this case, no, he did not communicate all the time, and then sometimes, like I said, for the most part, she had to initiate what's going on. They were married. Yeah, they were married.
Speaker 1:But here's the thing, though that's kind of unconsiderative for her to understand, like hey, you know what If he probably wasn't married to me? And not just to say that she's a bad person or anything like that, but just, marriage period, it's work. You've got things that you have to do. You now have a family, people to take care of, and there's a man in the head of the household. You have responsibilities that you never had before. If he wasn't married, maybe he could have got done with the book in a year.
Speaker 1:So you take some considerations Like hey, guess what? Hey, he's a married man, he's a committed man. Hey, you know, it may take two, three or five years, but regardless of what it is, I'm still going to stand behind who this person is.
Speaker 4:And life was life and, like you said, there was other things that contributed to the delay, but it wasn't because of the budget Projects, projects.
Speaker 3:The honey-do list projects.
Speaker 4:Honeydew list. The honeydew list, I would say it was a little bit of everything, or it is a little bit of everything in situations, but the goal, eventually the goal got completed and it's been going very well for him. Essentially, the goal got completed and it's been going very well for him, but he's still getting that. Like you said at some point, when did, when did you stop beating him up for the first two, three years and recognize Never use it in every argument.
Speaker 1:That's what's happening is being weaponized and it's in every argument you could be working on him trying to get off of probation or parole, but you leave him alone and think like, hey man, it's a destructive person trying to do something constructive. People's mindsets is just like it could be much worse than this. You're worried about your man writing a book when your man could be trying to, just like I just said, get off of probation for me just leave it alone, he's doing his thing.
Speaker 2:We encourage him. Someone asked this because and Steven, in using the 30-day, 60-month, you know one year, what if the issue is unresolved?
Speaker 1:Remember I said it's a caveat when you guys come to this agreement, I make them list out all the things that they still feel like they want to talk about and before you leave this and it may take months or weeks to just say, hey, all these issues that have occurred, hey, we hashed them out, we talked about them. We may not agree, and here's the thing you're not going to agree, but at least you talked about it, yeah.
Speaker 1:But you talked about it. There you go. It's a contract of like, hey, you know what? And have the understanding that now that we have talked about it, we've come to a resolution.
Speaker 1:It may not be that we agree, but it is a resolution and we're willing to let this go. If we do talk about these things, there is a risk that this can make things go much, much worse. So the understanding what the risk is, you know. Just, it's one of the I have my couples do, kind of almost a Ten Commandments of their own marriage Thou shall not X, y, z, thou shall not talk about things that have happened in the past, 30 days in the past or a year in the past and whatnot. But again, it's this agreement that we're going to talk about these things. We're not going to easily forget, but we're going to talk about it. But after this we can't bring it up in other conversations or situations because all that does is distract from the original conversation. We've all been in arguments where we're so far gone from the original thing that we were arguing about.
Speaker 1:You don't remember what it is that we were arguing about in the first place and it's gone so left field because we've had unresolved issues and feelings about these things and now we feel like this is now the proper time to bring this particular issue up when we're talking about something else, or it's a deflection move.
Speaker 2:Oh, you didn't do this. Oh well, you didn't do that and you didn't do this and it's a snowball effect and it gets nowhere.
Speaker 1:And guess what happens? Nothing still gets resolved. Because then, guess what? We have another argument. Guess what? The same exact thing is going to happen, and before you know it, you're looking at this person at the last five years that I can't stand. I hate this person and that's what happens.
Speaker 4:Well, I hate you. That's what he's going to do, yeah.
Speaker 2:I hate you. So, before Steve's tirade or his rant, if you like, like and subscribe. I'm trying this for the first time. What you're saying is true, definitely, if you need to have some rules of engagement and if you go against those, agree to those rules and then go against them, be prepared to assess the consequences. Luckily there's grace and there's mercy that sometimes you're able to come out unscathed but a little more knowledgeable. But then there could be that time that you don't. So if you have something you know, just just try your best to to honor that, because there's rules are not, are not meant to restrict, but they're meant to kind of make things you know, level the playing field, make things a little fair, have some guidance and some boundaries, because we all whether we've been married, divorced, not divorced, I mean there's there's rules and there's boundaries that we all know we don't want to cross, because some of my compadres have seen what happens when you cross that line and they have told me you don't want to get across this line you don't not at all.
Speaker 2:It's not a. It's not a good, good side of the fence. So it was a good conversation. Uh, didn't know we was going to go there and just forget about my questions. You know we steve just took over see.
Speaker 1:That's why I don't see no no, we needed this.
Speaker 2:you know, I always believe what's supposed to happen will happen and it happens for a reason. There is somebody who's going to listen to this or watch this that needed to hear these exact words, because it's it's. It's the only thing that might have had that light bulb aha moment, or at least gave a little bit of clarity. And we always say, you know it will give you some advice, some suggestions. We're not, you know, some of them may be clinicians and stuff like that, but ultimately, whatever your God says to you to do, I always believe he's, if you follow him, he's the only one able to handle all the consequences that come with following his um, and it's not consequences when you follow him, but whatever you go through, he's the only one that has the power to get you through it and definitely, when you following him, he's the one responsible. Um. So, uh, any parting words or final thoughts or Uh any parting words or final thoughts.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna leave y'all with this. Um, it's something to uh, something to think about when we're going throughout our lives and just dealing with not only um potential mates, couples, uh, you know wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends or whoever it may be um being able to stop and listen to them, um, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends or whoever it may be being able to stop and listen to them. Practice, you know, going throughout the you know your journey in life of not always giving your opinion.
Speaker 2:You don't always have to.
Speaker 1:when somebody is post something online, you don't always have to give your opinion. Or when you're driving through traffic and somebody cuts you off, you ain't got to show them how mad you are. You ain't got to stick up to me. You don't have to do that. I don't no, not at all. You do not have to. So my thing is for people just stop. Just practice just stopping throughout life. Somebody pisses you off, Somebody looks a certain way or anything like that. You don't have to show your disgust, your anger. You don't have to show your emotions. You do not have to wear your emotions. Just stop and think about, in those instances, what is God trying to tell you, those emotions that you feel that you don't have to display. What's God trying to tell you about yourself and what's God trying to tell you about the situation?
Speaker 3:Start practicing that trying to tell you about the situation. Start practicing that. I guess I'll come up with something as I start talking, but I think it's a great discussion. I think my biggest takeaway would be to value growth and personal development in yourself first, so that you're not looking at the speck of dust in your brother's eye and paying no attention to the plank that's coming out of your own True?
Speaker 4:Yeah, something on the lines of that. We all need to do work. All potential ain't good potential, but you know, oh man, there's so many. But that was the core thing Accountability of self first and being willing, like you said. Like Steve said, we don't have to speak every time, or you know, but sometimes. But when people do speak, are we listening? Cause are we?
Speaker 4:This is a whole nother podcast, but I've been talking to people, a lot of my couples, about this. We, we program our wives on how we want them to talk to us, on how we want them to talk to us, and what I'm saying, that is, if they have to ask five or six times for us to do the one thing and then we only move when they start yelling, that's our fault. We only listen when they start screaming, cussing and crying, that's our fault. So it's our job to learn each other so we can elevate each other in a sense that we grow. And when I'm when I speak of elevation, I'm speaking of growth. Um, you can't be in this thing and not grow. Well, you won't stay, you won't stay in it and you gotta grow together. That's it all right.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just gonna say, like, subscribe. I don't have anything profound to say. Today it's I'm, I'm preparing for tomorrow. But in all seriousness, you know, we always say if you need someone to talk to Find a professional through your insurance, if you don't have any, there are resources online insurance. If you don't have any, there are resources online. You can go to any of these federally qualified health centers. They have behavioral health specialists. Talk to someone. You can talk to your friends. You can talk to your ministers, but you want to talk to people that are professional.
Speaker 2:We always say you know you can go to see a mechanic for your car. I mean, you can also go see a chef, but that chef may be able to fix it, may not. But you want to go to someone that is professional, that has gone through test and licensure. You got to be licensed in order to get professional help and, ultimately, just be transparent. You can't get the help that you need if you're not willing to be transparent and honest with yourself and with that person, and that's why we always support those who are in that field, because they're trained for a reason they will help you, bring out what you may already know but may not have felt confident enough to say or even accept, so this has been Iron Table. Iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men Until the next time we meet, just stay, just keep moving forward each step. Even if it's a small step, it's a forward moving step. Alright, thank you.
