The Iron Table
The Iron Table
Someone Lied To US: Being Nice & Morality in Politics Don't Always Mix
Can masculinity embrace both kindness and strength, or must a man choose between the two? Join us at the Iron Table, as Bryant, Keith, Danny, and Steve reunite to explore this age-old balance. We kick off with personal updates, including Bryant's experience with the Iron Table basketball squad, as we discuss the challenges of maintaining health while embracing competition. The conversation then shifts to the shifting work landscape, where government employees face the transition back to office life after long periods of remote work. This change significantly impacts work-life balance and reshapes urban economies as cities adjust to the new financial realities of decreased local spending.
Our discussion ventures into politics, where we dissect the power dynamics that influence societal tensions, particularly affecting black and brown communities. We dive into the complexities of political allegiances and how faith-based voters navigate decisions fraught with moral dilemmas and policy alignments. Through candid reflections, we examine the emotional rollercoaster of political loyalty and the gender dynamics that surface within communities, especially during election seasons. The conversation unveils how these political divides can mirror personal relationships, often forcing individuals to weigh assertiveness against niceness in leadership and in life.
In closing, we delve into the heart of masculine identity — the ongoing quest for balance and self-awareness. Through personal stories and biblical insights, we explore the challenges men face in embodying both kindness and authority, emphasizing the need for setting healthy boundaries and seeking personal fulfillment. We touch upon the role of humor and effective communication in relationships, underlining the significance of laughter and honesty. Join us as we share insights, laughter, and camaraderie, reaffirming the importance of shared experiences on the journey toward personal growth.
Welcome to the Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men. I am your host, bryant Goddine, and I'm joined by my brothers, Keith Danny and Steve. We're your waiters, serving you accountability and truth. We now bring you to our program already in progress. All right, welcome to the Iron Table. Where iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen it. And if you're not being sharpened, then you are not at the Iron table, so you need to come over here. So a couple of housekeeping items before we get started.
Speaker 1:Of course, all of our recordings can be found either here on YouTube or also on our audio site, which is irontablebuzzsproutscom. As I said, you can find us on Google Podcasts, apple Podcasts, amazon Music and YouTube. Just search for the Iron Table. There's a second one. They all right, but they ain't us. And then, of course, we don't own any of these rights to any music, but we honor those who have used their talents to provide a story, tell a story, and so we use their words to honor their gifts. All right, as I said, iron Table, I'm one of your co-hosts, brian. I got my brothers, keith, danny and Steve, and before we really get into today's message, I wanted to ask these guys what have they been up to? We haven't seen each other in like two weeks. Just want to get a good update, a good little check-in litmus test. So, fellas, doesn't matter what order, you're not on mute, so say your piece, don't hold your mule.
Speaker 2:Don't hold your mule. I'm going to just jump in and say I had my debut with the Iron Table basketball squad last night. Luckily my nose isn't in my brain.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:We were able to survive. My goal was to be able to walk home. I was able to walk home. That's the goal. Yes, I had fun, looking forward to continuing to get healthy with my brothers.
Speaker 1:That's what it's about. Health Wins are a bonus.
Speaker 2:We would have won if they didn't take me out in the first half.
Speaker 1:I honestly believe that we actually had a lead, for there were lead changes.
Speaker 2:There were several lead changes up to the time I got hurt Because we had a good rotation. It was good.
Speaker 1:It was good.
Speaker 2:We had some chemistry and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We live, we walk. Next time, wear a mask yeah, I'm gonna do what I do best and just like that might fade, you know, just going in the lane. I'll save that for other people.
Speaker 1:I'm just going in the corner none of us are going in the lane, we are nope mid range or threes. That's about it.
Speaker 2:I gotta go to work my black job on Monday. I ain't trying to get hurt. Careful with the black jobs, president Trump. He president now Trying to steal your black jobs. Steal your black jobs, steal your black jobs.
Speaker 1:So you know as the only government worker on this, I feel like I'm on an island by myself, with you three.
Speaker 2:No man, he coming for y'all too. He is cutting government. He laying people, they laying people left to right. He's touching everybody. Yeah, you ain't say.
Speaker 1:Take it one day at a time.
Speaker 2:That's right. Trust him, god, one day at a time. It's going to be what it's going to be. The biggest change that I think they said they're trying to make is that they're going to have a lot of government employees go back into the building, which is also causing a lot of. I get it If you've been out of the building even before COVID, but mainly at the start of COVID or during COVID, or after you've just been working from home for the last four or five years and they now tell you you got to go back into the office. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I could do that, I think for those that are 100% remote, but they are within a certain mileage range of the Capitol, Um, and if you work in the Capitol, I work in in Maryland and one of the Maryland suburbs, um, you it, of course DC is like hey, we, we got these buildings. People are not coming in, they're not spending money, we're not getting any taxable income.
Speaker 2:It's not my problem. That's not my problem. I don't care about that. I would hate it because I have gotten used to the flexibility myself flexibility myself.
Speaker 2:And if you call me and say, keith, you got to go back into the building and work for somebody else, I'm telling you, the most disgruntled I don't care employee, you going to go get your path on the tent. What's that? You going to go get your path on the tent? Man, I go and show up. I do just enough. I was here, I punched in and then I went on my lunch break early.
Speaker 1:I think there's flexible schedules. Like I work a 410. So I am in the building. I have at least one mandatory day that I have to be in the building and I'm there. I don't mind going. If they move it to two, I'm good, I can't do that.
Speaker 2:I can do one One mandatory day just to come in. Most people, let's be honest either you're going to be hyper-focused and you're going to come in because that's the one day you got and you're going to knock it out and you're going to get it done, or it's the complete opposite You're going to come in there and you're going to BS.
Speaker 1:Socialize Wild, cooler and everything.
Speaker 2:How you doing. How are the kids?
Speaker 1:I'll say my job is more of strategic aligning individuals, like making sure the left hand knows what the right hand is doing, and linking organizations together in order to provide technical assistance.
Speaker 2:You're working that grown man job.
Speaker 1:Health is something that is liked on both sides of the aisle. I'm not saying I'm insulated from this. This is going to be four years that we've never experienced. Some people try to say it's going to be the same. No, it's not.
Speaker 2:He's already saying that. He's already saying it now. He's not just saying that he has another branch of government now who can support his agenda. And so I would argue that whenever either side gets too much power, there's a shift. That you know power always brings corruption. Too much power is going to be abused, and so when the other side had both branches of government, that's when you had this advancement of stuff that's like, yeah, I don't know, but that's what's going to happen. In my opinion, you're just going to have a shift, a big shift in a direction that might not have been as drastic. I know we talked about election, not election, if we're talking about, but either way, I'm setting myself up so that, whatever happens, we're going to be all right in that spirit of time Yep, I got to, but we can't. In that spirit of time.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, y'all right, I got to, but we can't, we can't not acknowledge that this is going to be an interesting season for mental and emotional health. So all of you clinical therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, all of it behavioral health is going to be a. It's going to explosion, because we just had to deal with people coming in, coming out of the pandemic and then going into this, and with a lot of frontline workers having to deal with individuals who may feel more emboldened now that their desired party has won.
Speaker 2:Not me. You remember the last term Not me. They did feel it was a lot of senseless acts of racism, people just feeling themselves. It's already been reported that it's back.
Speaker 1:Let's think about the black and brown people that live in some of these areas, which are predominantly red, in order to survive. Do they get a pass if, for their own safety and their own preservation, that they voted a certain way, even if their morals did not fully align with that of, you know, a certain party?
Speaker 2:What do you mean by a pass?
Speaker 1:I mean, like at one point, what was it? That first it was black men that were being targeted because Democrats didn't win and then when data came out and showed like no, it was probably like 20% that didn't vote blue. Some of it quieted down because I remember I saw a video of all these Black women that were just like Black brothers, you know.
Speaker 1:I didn't do what y'all used to do. Y'all hurt our feelings and so if you get hurt, die. If you ain't gonna be, no, go fund me's ain't gonna be no. And and that isn't that all women feel this way, but the fact that not winning brought out that level. Um, and I'll say this One party is willing to do something erratic if they did not win. Another party is willing to just kind of sit and hide and say stuff, you know, like I'm going to say this and then I'm going to get back, like I mean, I give it to the republican party. It's they. I may not agree with all of their views and certain things I think is cool, um, so same thing with the democrats. But at least republicans, they are willing to. They're fanatical about their, um, their belief system. Where democrats are, you know, know, we're, we're peace, we're peaceful.
Speaker 2:You know we'll be okay, but in closed doors we are saying stuff I don't know about that I got another question for you in light of something we were talking about in the pre-show, and that is we were talking about nice guys, right?
Speaker 1:And I just had an epiphany there is in our political climate.
Speaker 2:there's the nice guy, and then there's the jerk SOB. And, interestingly enough, who is America choosing? America ain't looking for a nice guy. Not no more we have. I think there's a lot of different nuances about it is how much goes into, why more people and we're talking about the popular vote as well as the electoral college we want this man the one who is a convicted felon, the one who is a notorious pathological liar, the one who, I mean Do we need to keep going? We can keep going. There's bully, narcissist, childish insecure.
Speaker 1:We want this thing. It's not about the person, it's about pockets. The person, it's about pockets, yeah, I don't know, because these people are loyal to the individual.
Speaker 2:Like the party, nobody cares about the party. There were so many people in the party that said we cannot have a Donald Trump, we cannot have a. And then everybody ended up dropping like flies. It's just like okay, he's the nominee, all right, he's the one that the people want. He's the proverbial equivalent of give us Barabbas, I'll get ready to. We know he's a murderer, but we want Barabbas. This man is a convicted felon. I would argue that the reason why people are selecting this man is because everybody knows he ain't nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm talking loosely but civil. I think that every one of us have have what I call nice guy syndrome. I was telling you guys in um in the pre-show that I'm in the middle of reading a book. It's called no more mr nice guy and in this book it's talking about a lot of how a lot of men are having problems in their interpersonal relationships. Three of us have experienced divorce. We talked about that last episode, which is when we went into marriage insurance.
Speaker 2:Every single one of us has gone through all kinds of nonsense and I would attribute much of that to the fact that at one point in time we were nice guys who believed that being nice, life is going to reward you, because nobody wants a jerk. Nobody wants that.
Speaker 2:And so nobody wants that and in reality, we know that a lot of times girls choose the bad guy, the, the bad boy, the, the one who's just all kinds of just and the book that I'm reading is arguing because it's exuding more of the masculine traits than you are. A woman doesn't even want a woman doesn't want somebody who's like another, even people who are in same-sex relationships. You have one that's going to have a lot of masculine energy.
Speaker 1:A lot of masculine, yeah, point blank.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I don't know where I'm going. I kind of hijacked the microphone here.
Speaker 1:No, no, I mean, today is free calling. I've already started talking about politics and again, I'm the only government worker.
Speaker 2:But here's the thing Do we need nice in the presidential seat at this point, with everything that's going on in the world, with everything that's going on in the country? Do we need nice? Do we need hold your hand? Do we need a kumbaya person, or do we need somebody that just like look, enough's enough. X, y and Z.
Speaker 1:I guess it all depends on are we at this point? Is America about self-preservation or is it about the collective? And I think we've been about the collective. I think there has to be a balance. It's one. It's probably still swinging and hasn't gotten to that balance, but now it's swinging back to the side that says we need to somewhere we stop believing that we are great, that we're important, that we're influential.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we stop believing that, because the bully came and said we need to make America great again. Oh shoot, I got to put my thing up. Hang on, my thing about to turn off.
Speaker 1:Make America great again. Huh, here's my thing up.
Speaker 2:Hang on. My thing about to turn off. Make America great again, huh. But here's my question to y'all too If y'all see a MAGA hat, or if y'all see somebody that says they voted for Trump and have the signs and the stickers for Trump, do you automatically think that they're racist? I mean, how do you guys feel about that? Okay, got you.
Speaker 1:Do you automatically think that they're racist? I mean, how do you guys feel about that?
Speaker 2:Okay, there's a lot of people that feel like if they see that mega hat, oh you're just automatically racist. Or if you support, if you don't support Trump, then you automatically don't like white people. You know what I mean. It's a lot of people that have that mindset that are thinking like that. I don't think that's always the case.
Speaker 2:A lot of them have been told that, just like people who did not vote for Vice President Harris, if you didn't vote for her, it doesn't make you a person who hates Black people or minorities. You may not agree with her politics or you just don't feel like she would have been the best fit. I saw some of those videos, bryant, and I think that's what was hard for a lot of women to wrap their minds around is that some people just felt she wasn't a good fit. I don't want her as the president. It's not even about her having the first black female president or some people felt she's not qualified or just did not want her. Again, you have the right to not have the right to choose.
Speaker 1:That's the democracy. You had Hillary Clinton, so it's not the first time you had Sarah Palin. She was a vice president.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I forgot all about that. So that was Shirley, miss Shirley Chisholm.
Speaker 1:So there have been opportunities for America to show that, you know it, that this position, this position is not gender specific Right, but right now the majority and I think, as we've used biblical references, you know this is a children of Egypt, I mean children of Israel coming out of Canaan, not Canaan coming out of Egypt. And as they're trying to get to Canaan, you had a couple that said I think it was with the 12 spies, where 10 were like nah, they big, we can't do nothing. And Joshua was like nah, they big, we can't do nothing. And joshua and taylor was like no, we can. You know, we got god on our side, we can take it. And because the people followed the 10 and didn't have faith, they had to wander even longer. And it wasn't that it was far, it was that all that negativity had to die out before and, as we are looking at, we have more interracial couples, of course, now we have more same-sex marriages.
Speaker 1:America has evolved and gone away and has evolved from the black and white to now the grayish area. It may be, just, it may not have been the right time, you know, for that, and I'm not knocking. I'm not knocking either party, I'm independent. So I look at issues and I'm like, okay, what is the issue? Take out morality, take out, you know, ageism, sexism, what is the? Which party affects my bottom line or my values, irregardless of who's up front, that makes sense. You know, if you're trying to get individuals off of living, off of like poverty and welfare and reestablishing you know self-worth and I mean like why would I want to work hard if you're going to give me more to not work? And that you know. And I'm not saying get rid of all social programs but redesign them, not saying get rid of all social programs, but redesign them.
Speaker 1:I think when I was in the 80s they had, you know, you had welfare, but they also were giving government jobs and they said we'll start you off at like a GS2. I think that was making $15,000 back then, which was money, but each year or evaluation, you would get more. You, you come a three. So then your federal assistance was shrink, you know, in order to make things, and then you and some of them made it up to I think it was like a GS 11. So at that time it was probably like 60 something thousand. You don't need to still get welfare, the system assistance, in order to make ends meet. It brought about purpose, but we've kind of gone away from that. That's a program I would like to see come back Again. Take out the feelings and the emotion. If you look at the bottom line, that's how you should approach elections. But we all know it's popularity, it's the shock value. America is not moral. Our moral compass is not true. It's there but it's not true.
Speaker 2:I wanted to just comment on a conversation I had with a brother like a week or two before Black guy African heritage and he was trying to steer clear. But I was like, yeah, I want to hear what you got, I want to hear where you are. There's a friend of mine who another friend. He's like man, I'm an end of public crap. There's a friend of mine who another friend he's like man.
Speaker 2:I'm an endopublicrat, and so it's like I think both sides there's something wrong with all of them, but I'm going to vote my conscience. Some people believe in the lesser of two evils, but I'm talking to this dude who has a rather noticeable African accent and we end up tiptoeing into this conversation about you know what are your thoughts about this election? We didn't overtly say who you vote for, but that's kind of where we're going, and one of the dominant issues that I kept hearing among people who were persons of faith, strong religious faith was the. This is where I got the phrase. He called them the alphabet mafia.
Speaker 2:That's what he called it the community that uses the rainbow, the community that uses the rainbow, and he was pointing out how this movement that has existed now for several different administrations, both Democrat and Republican, that it was getting out of hand to the point that parents could no longer tell their children they can't mutilate their genitals and become the opposite gender. And so he said his contention was you know what? I don't necessarily agree with this person. This, this guy as a person. He was talking about Trump as a person.
Speaker 2:He was talking about Trump, but if I need to vote for him to prevent, them from teaching in the public school system that my kids need to chop off their balls, and I guess that's a sign To chop off their balls and I guess I need to be careful. That was a sign. But his point was I am voting not for this guy. I don't like him as a person. I think that he's this, I think that he's that, but if voting for him is the only way to stop this agenda from taking over and usurping my parental rights, then I'll vote how I need to vote, and a lot of people of faith voted that way. Some of them didn't vote because it's like man, I don't know, I can't vote for either side because over here you got this person who's pushing this.
Speaker 2:You got this side who's pushing that. It's like lesser of two evils, vote for evil. I don't know what to do this election. So those are some of the conversations that I had with with people getting back to OK, what, what happened? Why did it happen? There's a lot of black and brown people who are very religious and faith guides most of what it is that they do and even if this guy is a butthole, he's going to give policy that's going to align closer to what they believe. It's a discussion that can go on and on. I just thought it was an interesting conversation to have.
Speaker 2:In the light of our conversation, and I like it that he was actually logical in what he was thinking about, because it seems as if this election has further, like I said before, pushed Black people, black women and Black men further from each other. You know we've already talked about, you know, the. I don't need a man, or you know what you bring to the table. I need a high value, this, I need a high value. That Now it's oh, you know, like I said, I had clients that were talking about they didn't want to, you know, have sex with their husband, not because they because he voted for Trump, because they did actually vote for, um, you know Harris but because they were a black man.
Speaker 2:And that narrative that was spit about black men did not support or protect their black woman. This time it just seeped into the minds of a lot of people to where they did not use their head about everything that's going on, especially in their household, you know. So it's. It's very weird how this has played in, divided not only just the population in general, but specifically now the black family. It just bleeds into the, to the misconception that already is there, that we don't feel protected or we don't feel valued or we, you guys, don't support us.
Speaker 2:So it just put it on a public stage and it made it more of a public narrative where, again, when you go back and look at what is happening, that's not the case. We've always loved, supported and every Black somebody said every Black man in America could have voted and she still would have lost. Because, again, what is our population compared to those who are voting for Trump? So it's not whether we voted, we did our part and then, even if we didn't agree again, we still have the right to not vote for her. My issue is the level of because again I get it and I'll speak on it. I ain't scared Because I saw a lot of people that day. I talked to a lot of women and girlfriends and wives and mothers and friends who were very upset and they were letting me have it.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with y'all. I was watching people cry because they really wanted to see her in there and it's almost, I dare, liking it to sports when your favorite team goes to the Super Bowl and they lose and you hate the world because they didn't win, because we lost, because we lost, and so again we in a situation.
Speaker 2:You ain't even on the board. I will say there's more at stake in these situations, because your sports team's not making your policies for government, but the level of toxicity and anger within that 24 to 48 hours, a lot of these posts that you see, these women don't you know. Some women say are we going to hold out on sex? We not talking. Our relationships are bad enough out here for us to be doing this because of a political situation that was beyond our control as black men. So I had to answer that's not the worst thing.
Speaker 1:The worst thing I heard was if you get gunned down by the police yes, that part, that part, you know, go fund me.
Speaker 2:We don't care If you don't have insurance to bury yourself, just go have someone bury you in the backyard, we not helping because y'all didn't vote for it. And then again Howard voting for Kamala. Like what would that change? Like again, even if she did get in, you could still take that stance. So about something else, that's just it. You can still take that stance. So about something else, that's just it, it's all. Wait a minute.
Speaker 1:If you don't have insurance.
Speaker 2:Hold on a second.
Speaker 1:They say, if you don't have insurance.
Speaker 2:We're not going to do a gun. Fund me to bury you. That's what they said.
Speaker 2:Yep Said if you don't have enough insurance to cover, then the election should be far from your worries then, because you don't even have the basics at this part, you shouldn't even be worried about politics because you're not taking care of your home if you ain't even got insurance to bury yourself if anything happens. So this is again no. They were saying if a black man gets gunned down, that we, as black women, are not supporting the burial and we're not supporting, you know, the family. Y'all didn't vote for Vice President Harris.
Speaker 1:Who else is saying?
Speaker 2:this. What other community is saying this? This is so. It's the same women that are divorces, that are in these marriages that aren't working. I'm just telling you. There's some overlap of unhappy women. There's some overlap of unhappy women who do?
Speaker 2:not care, ain't nobody with a red hat is giving any credence to that. It's just like what. It ain't go somewhere with that. Think about that. When Trump lost last time, we didn't hear white women saying that to about white men. We didn't hear any of this. We didn't hear white women saying that to about white men. We didn't hear any of this. We didn't hear anybody else say we're not our race.
Speaker 1:Our race, we're not going to support you.
Speaker 2:They didn't do that. They said how can we storm the White House with you, honey? We're storming the Capitol, it's a revolution, right, right, listen. I'm trying to tell you Okay, we all going to be felons. They stuck together, even in they crazy. They stuck together, even breaking the law. Bonnie and Clyde style. There wasn't. No, they didn't create division. That's so sad. For us, that is a great. They stuck together, even in craziness, I'm saying. But even as we're looking at this intersection of nice guy like the red hat represents the emphasis of nice guy.
Speaker 2:That's what to me, and it worked. It worked Regardless of what side you're on. It worked. The people said we want this guy we ain't I'm pretty sure you could argue the fact there's nothing nice about this guy, nothing why are why? Have? Why have the majority of people selected him? What is it about this other ideology that's like, yeah, nah.
Speaker 1:So is stability being stable as a man not an attractive thing?
Speaker 2:I'm not arguing that. I'm saying that the aspect of niceness. So like we're all, has anybody ever called you a nice guy? Let's just start there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Have you ever had a woman? Cross the line in terms of a physical altercation has happened to you? Has that ever happened? Has anybody, has anybody? Here, Because she knew, she knew, she knew, she knew, she knew, she knew. I'm sorry, I personalized it almost. We were not going to lay hands because of the thought you know.
Speaker 1:But I mean. The thought is there, though is just that we're not willing to go to jail.
Speaker 2:For right. It's right. I think it's a little deeper than that. I think it's a little deeper than that.
Speaker 1:Make it deep, no more, mr.
Speaker 2:Nice guy. I think it's a little deeper than that. Make it deep and this book no More, Mr Nice Guy. He's pointing it out based on how a lot of us were raised, Like we end up being less. He's arguing the word, the terminology masculine.
Speaker 2:And so we're trying to please, we're trying to make sure they're happy, we're trying to make sure they have all the things that they need. Where the red hat is just like this is what we're doing and like y'all don't have to like it. But and the surprising thing is, I've talked to so many women who it's a love-hate because it's like I don't want to plan everything, I don't want to feel like I'm doing everything, but I want you to just do it. Again, a lot of women look for that guy who says this is what we're doing and they tell me I've even heard it. I want you to just say this is what we're doing Because again, being a nice guy, you come and you say so, what do you want to do? And they hate that. It's hated. I'm not even talking about nobody else, I'm talking about me, daniel Alexander Williams. Like, what do you want to do? Where do you want to go? Where do you? This is what we got planned today. This is where we're going to eat, and no complaining about it the whole time.
Speaker 2:But oh okay, Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Steve Brian, y'all were talking about this, steve stopped doing what he was doing off camera. It would be hard to do.
Speaker 2:I'm also saying specifically the notion of pushing a man to a point to where not even pushing, but just the notion of I'm going to treat this man in a certain way because I know that he is a good dude. He's not going to lay hands because I wouldn't do this to such and such, because I know that the fist is going to be in my face. That in and of itself is a crime against humanity to use a man's kindness for weakness. Here's the problem, though, steve.
Speaker 2:There's a difference between kind and nice. There's a difference and many of us have been groomed by society to be nice, to be not so confrontational, to be people pleasers, to be respectful, to not lay my hands on a woman because I know that I'm physically stronger than you, and this is just not right.
Speaker 2:I'm doing what I'm supposed to do and you're taking advantage of that Versus people who are like I need to know that you're strong, even if it hurts me, come on, come on. This is why women even if it hurts me, okay Okay, come on, come on. I mean, this is why women and you talk to them how they end up in these situations where they're, in these situations, with these crappy dudes. But that's what they're looking for. They're looking for what we have determined as society represents strength, and it ain't nice. This is why I'm telling you America has put Donald Trump back in office Because he's not a nice guy. There's nothing nice about him. He doesn't care about anything or anyone but himself, himself, and to some extent that is, that's a.
Speaker 2:Those are attributes that prompt people to say you know what? I think that we might be in a better position with somebody who just don't care, that just doesn't give up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with somebody who just don't care, that just doesn't give up. Yeah well, I mean, that's four years.
Speaker 2:Do we feel like that's already been happening, like hey, we've had people in position already and like what have they done? What's really going on? And there's positions about even immigrants illegal immigrants and people are getting up in arms and just traveling around the world. There's nowhere else in the world can a person that is not legally supposed to be in that country can they stay? There's nowhere else in the world can you do that. You can't do it. Look, canada is literally across the street in Michigan, just going over there.
Speaker 2:They don't play Go ahead and say you're welcome, you getting a final, you're going to be put in jail for a minute. No other countries play that game. But again, like you said, do we want somebody that's nice or do we want somebody that's going to just say, okay, no, we don't care, no more. You know what I mean. We're getting back to the basics at this point. So my question is what's wrong with nice? What's wrong with nice? Three of us have been divorced. All of us have been labeled nice guys. What's wrong with nice? And how is it that? Oh my God, how is it that? I can't, I can't.
Speaker 1:I got my pad.
Speaker 2:I could literally just say. There was a point in time where I, specifically, I said, please, I just don't. I said it like this. I said please, can we not talk about this, can we just take a break, please? I said please, like this. I said please, can we not talk about this, can we just take a break, please? I said please, about seven times Please, please, can we just stop? In the nicest, calmest voice. And it wasn't until the hawk came out. There's results.
Speaker 1:Then there's results.
Speaker 2:Why do we have to go through this at this point for you to understand that I'm a liar? She knew what she was doing I want you to know she knew exactly what she was doing. She's like I want. I want the I'm upset, though he needs to be upset, even if that masculine energy puts me in harm's way.
Speaker 2:That's what I need in order to feel safe, that's crazy, because not only does it put you in harm's way, but it puts the whole family in harm's way, because at the end of the day, the police can come and haul me behind to jail. And guess what? Now, depending on how long I stay in jail, I lose my job. Now I lose my job. Now I lose my job. Guess what? I lose this house because you can't afford it, with just yoke, because we did it. You see what I'm saying? Like it's that whole snowball effect to where you're not thinking about the choices that you make when we are just in the lines of trying to respect each other.
Speaker 1:No, I just need you to hear me right now.
Speaker 2:I just need to OK, ok.
Speaker 1:Now I got to talk about it now I got.
Speaker 2:No, I got to talk about it. Now I got it. Okay, all right, all right. You know, sometimes when we choose violence remember I said that word choosing violence, choosing violence, we're choosing to have. And I tell a couple of this all the time pick your battles, pick your battles. You don't have to battle every time, and it's a fundamental law that each couple should make when it comes to being able to stop and shut things down, even if it's just for the moment, just stop. Practice the art of stopping, just stop. It's hard. Once some of these couples get their foot on the gas, it is hard to take it off because now they're both gone and they both want to be heard. Now nobody's listening, everybody's just screaming over each other, slamming doors. Then that's when, a lot of times, the blows get thrown with, like you said, hard pause. Some people sex life. They got a safe word. I tell people, even in arguments you need something, you need a safe word to say okay, say okay, break time out, throw a flag in something.
Speaker 2:I'll be, um, I'll be right back, but something that allows you to get away from that argument or for that situation before it gets to that but what?
Speaker 1:happens there what happens when that rule is ignored? Hmm, that's that's telling.
Speaker 2:Not if not if when it when it's ignored, because at some point somebody's going to do it and and then you hold, then you again, you respectfully hold them accountable.
Speaker 2:Listen, I said I need it because again I had to learn that and it comes from not being the nice guy. Listen, I just told you uh, pineapple, that's the word, octopus, whatever it is, tea tree oil, whatever the safe word is. I just said that to let you know I need a break. So if you're going to argue, that's fine, you're just going to be by yourself because I'm not responding anymore.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:That's what you learn after. Yes.
Speaker 2:You learn that after I said listen, I told y'all God put me in prison as an employee. But he put me in prison working with domestic violence groups, and I'm listening to these same men who are no longer free because they did One decision, one decision.
Speaker 2:So I'm going home. I'm going home dealing with this stuff in real time and I'm like. All I'm thinking is I'm not wearing orange, I'm not for this Now, for my kids I'll wear it all day, but I'm not going to allow myself to get sucked into something that's going to cause me to lose everything, and I would hate myself for it. So, learning how to control myself first, because, again, I can't always Well, no, I will say this Now you can't control other people's actions. But I will say this Learning how to control myself did affect how other people acted, because once they saw that these triggers were deactivated, either they had to try new ones or they just stopped. And that's human beings. They give you the middle finger on the highway and you respond with nothing, y'all going back and forth, but when they give you the middle finger and you say praise God, my brother, thank you, I needed one of those. Where did you find that one? The Lord has been with me.
Speaker 1:Thank you that right there.
Speaker 2:I apologize. I follow some folk home for the middle thing. Yeah, I've come a long way.
Speaker 1:My point is again that could have got your head blown clean off. That could have got your head blown clean off.
Speaker 2:There is a balance. There is a time for everything under don't. There is a balance. There's a time for everything under the sun. There is a time to be a nice guy, Because that diffuses. Proverbs is full of it. It diffuses so much foolishness. F you stupid. Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's, I'm going to play devil's advocate. Play it. The world says that being a nice guy is bad, but if biblical principles say that there's more niceness and I'm not saying more niceness than it is about I know there's a time and a place for everything. Thank you. Most of the time, most of the time, any type of negativity was in Christ's model was replaced with a kind word. Sometimes you know, meeting the immediate need, but he did hold them accountable.
Speaker 2:Stop painting my Jesus as this little put up with everybody's nonsense, because he did not. He came for some people, your daddy's a liar. I was just reading that your daddy's the devil. Yes, the devil's father lies. You just like him. You just like your lying daddy. That's basically what Jesus said. You just like your lying daddy the devil.
Speaker 1:Daddy, daddy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was reading John 8 and You're just like your line Daddy the devil, daddy, daddy. Yeah, if you read, I was reading John 8 and John 9. The whole thing 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. And when you look at it, you see that Jesus was smooth, but he wasn't a pushover in any respect, to the point that they got so furious with this dude that they picked up stones and they was about to stone him. He's like what you want. And they walked right through him what you want to do.
Speaker 2:They were so angry Jesus was not fancy fancy this little hippie with a lily with, you know, picking lilies with his friends he was.
Speaker 1:So two things, all right. So jesus had the power to eradicate you know I'll use that strong word, you know just put down his oppressors. But even in his strength he was stronger by not using his strength. So being nice in that sense is, you know, not using the strength that we have in order to achieve our own personal agenda, which might be self-preservation. It's about you know again, what is the final agenda. His final agenda was getting to that cross and dying for our sins. So there were certain things that he could have done that he chose not to. Now I want to go back to something where we conditioned because I just brought it up about, you know, more themes in the Bible was about being nice, compassionate, understanding than it was about, you know, putting your foot down. And even though God is a God of rules and order, you cross them. It's not always I'm going to punch you, slap you, whatever. I'm holding you accountable. We were taught only one side of God.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agree and being taught only that one side of God had us emulating God like tendency.
Speaker 2:Just turn the other cheek Couple that with the absence of a godly, like a godly example of a man in our homes. That's the real problem. Yeah, that's what's caused more damage than we could even calculate or measure. What's caused more damage than we could even calculate or measure. Because we don't know. And not only do you not know, but then you got somebody over here telling you it's like this Happy wife, happy life. Oh okay, just make her happy, that's the dumbest thing you could ever do.
Speaker 1:Women don't want that.
Speaker 2:Do you know that is a in other parts of the country where they lure tourists in. That's a major slogan that they use. It literally was the name of a store. It said happy wife, happy life, and they use that to get you to come in and buy things to just make her happy. Listen this is the new this goes back since market.
Speaker 2:I mean like when we started professionally marketing good example, diamond industry. Diamonds are just shiny rocks, but this whole industry got women convinced that if your man does not give you this when he proposes, he does not truly love you like, and if it's not this size, this great, this like, so it's when they sell stuff, when think about it, because I had all these marketing courses when they sell stuff, they don't, they don't target men why we might buy one thing like we, we buy our car, we buyers, whatever it is, you went to your electronics, you buy it. You go, sit down. We don't have, we don't always keep going back. Like women will go back shoes, purses, coats, like there's this drive to go back, go back, go back. So, yes, they go after them, women and daughters.
Speaker 2:Because again, with all these that's, with the concerts, with the justin biebers and all and the taylor, they, they get this buy-in because they know the women will get us to spend. We don't spend, men will sit. We just trying to keep the peace. So, whatever I need to do just to keep the doggone peace in my house, I will do it. I will do it.
Speaker 1:I just want my little piece of space and you to be happy we are not and I don't know about y'all, but in terms of the demise of my marriage, it was like is she happy now?
Speaker 2:Is she happy now? Is she happy now? Until I figured out hold up, Am I happy? Exactly that right there bled into so much dysfunction from me, like that came from me because I didn't have that healthy example. I didn't know I was. I was shooting at a moving target in the dark with a blindfold on when it came to exuding true, godly masculinity. And I'm still learning, which is why I'm reading this book. Yeah, and that's how you know if you got a good woman or not. Just ask her. Hey, just tell her. Just go up to a woman, even if you're not, just to see what happens. Just ask her. I'm not asking her, but just tell her you know a woman, whatever your woman's name is, I'm not happy. Just say that. Just say I'm not happy If she starts questioning you about hey, how can we do this? How can I help you X, Y, Z, you got a good woman If she flips it back on her and why she's not happy. Uh-oh, we got a problem.
Speaker 2:We got a problem because a woman should be uplifting a man and helping to just say, hey, you know what? My man was vulnerable enough to come to me and say, hey, he's not happy. How can I, as the helper mate, help him to be happy at this point in time, because at one point I'm going to need him. And, brian, I'm going to give you a bit of advice on something we just talked about. Remember, we talked about having a safe word or just being able to stop. One thing that will commonly happen you're running to this is that if you guys put that into the practice and you guys say, hey, we're just going to stop, what would commonly happen with women is that they will just just just unload okay, now I'm done.
Speaker 2:And then we have a thing like hey, hold on, I didn't get a chance to say I thought we would stop it. I didn't get a chance to say what. I thought we would stop it. I didn't get a chance to say what I wanted to say. So let me say what, since you, you got a chance to say what you wanted to say, now I'm going to say just let it go. Just let it go. Yeah, hold the rules. Just let it go.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, you, but okay cool, you said everything you need to say, and not if, when it happens, when it happens and that's going to happen.
Speaker 1:I'm not listening to you today, steve. No, you're trying to restart Because y'all have told me before, right, when I said oh yeah, you were like, no, you know what you just said, restarted it, so nope, not going to say what you just said.
Speaker 2:Restarted it, so, nope, not going to say what you just said Well, don't say all of it, I'm just saying okay, just say okay, thank you for sharing. We'll talk about this, we'll revisit this. Thank you for sharing. Oh no, don't even say that, say I heard you, I heard you, I hear what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Come on, steve, because there's other guys that are not in my situation that need to hear this, so you need I.
Speaker 2:Just that's exactly what they need to say. I heard you, I, I can see you saying, sometimes saying I understand, can put, can put your foot in your mouth too, so you can't really say that. You know, I heard you, I hear you and I want to. Let's come back to the situation. I want to, I want to, I want to process what you said and come back to the table.
Speaker 2:Come back to the table today you know you have to practice sometimes. You know people don't understand that sometimes, um, men hold the energy. Sometimes in a household, you, you know, if we are the ones that are, you know, the head of the household and we are the ones that are supposed to be keeping the energy up or down in these moments. That's exactly what is needed Because, potentially, I see the thing about it is like I think Keith or Danny, one of you guys said this about women you, women, their weapon of choice is words. We can't win that battle, but if we get our emotions out of whack, our weapon of choice is physical and you have to be responsible with that. You never want that to get unchecked, so you have to be sometimes the voice of reason. You have to Because it won't hurt her. It's going to hurt you too More, because jail is real. You have the nuclear codes, they're in your pocket and once you boop, boop, boop, everybody about to die, Everything, everything, everything.
Speaker 1:This is why it's a two-key system. Another key is someplace. I can't find it. I think I sent it to Keith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Brian, you too. Nice Brian, One of our friends.
Speaker 2:I think, it was Ase. Is it Ase? I think it was Ase. Is it Ase? I think it was Ase. He wrote a book about the difference between kindness and niceness. I haven't read the book, but I thought it was an intriguing title about this difference between being kind and being nice. We're never, ever in the Bible, told to be nice. We're not told to do that. Niceness denotes that you're like a doormatat and you're just gonna let people walk all over. You recognize the need to have healthy boundaries in place so that even when I love you and I'm letting you know I'm gonna die to save you, there's gonna be an angel with a flaming sword. That's just like, yeah, you're not coming back over here no more.
Speaker 2:You got to stay out Again, you over there. Now I will say this because even when people it is hard in breaking out of that shell, people will still expect you to expect what they know and they're going to be surprised and they're going to challenge it. Because as a recovering nice guy, I do have people come to me and they ask me for things with the expectation that this they're going to get it. Because because, oh, he he'll, that's keith, he'll do it, he'll, he'll do. No, I can say, I can say no. The funny thing is I'm still I guess I'm still. I still got some ways about it because I will say no with a smile on my face. Just as nice as can I. Can I borrow a car?
Speaker 2:No, I haven't developed that skill, yet I'm still learning. Can I have some money? No, or if it's something I don't want to do, I can look at. I can look at an employer. We need you to come in and work 25 hours. No, I'm not doing that I quit, I quit. I've gotten to a place where I can say no. It's almost unconvincing at first for some people because they're confused. The no didn't come harsh Not a kid.
Speaker 1:Somebody said that he said no.
Speaker 2:Yes, he said no, he said no, yes, I said no. And if I'm not available, I'm not available. If I don't want to, I don't want to and I don't. But again that played into some other things. I don't have the guilt of saying no, because that's another thing. With nice guys, sometimes there's things that drive that, like the guilt of hurt, disappointing others or not showing up, that's what the book is talking about you'll find yourself just lying, just to not say no, just lying about yourself.
Speaker 1:It talks about that.
Speaker 2:So no being okay with your, no being okay with shoot. The older I get self-preservation. I want to take a nap too.
Speaker 1:I want to take a nap too. I want to take a nap too. Protect the young people. I want to take a nap too. I want to take a nap too.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so you get put in a place where you have to say no and you have to make tough decisions. And it requires you not to be nice. Some people are exploitative. That's why they look for nice guys. Narcissistic women look for nice guys because and men too they attract each other. So you got people who are looking to prey on what they perceive as your weakness, your niceness, your kindness. I can have whatever I want from this person and they'll do whatever I want. And no, you cannot. You have to set boundaries. Everybody does, because reality is no is part of.
Speaker 2:I tell people, no is biblical, no is godly. You have to like if you don't have no in your spirit or something you're going to, what won't you give away? And I'm again learning with God when God says share, Jesus says shared and you know, be willing to, to sacrifice. Again, there's some limit. I mean, again, there's some balance to that. There is. There's some balance to that. There is some balance to that. If I love you enough, I will say yes, a lot of the times. That's a lot of people, Most husbands, most good husbands, like you guys already addressed we want to make our wives happy.
Speaker 2:We want them to have what they want and need, but with all of that, there is still a line where there is a no, because if they can't, I don't, and there has to be, there has to be, and it's biblical and it's godly. What were you saying? Brian, or even not even saying no, just saying enough, enough, enough. Sometimes it's not even a no, just saying enough, enough, enough.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it's not even a no.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it's just saying enough is what's needed. Enough, no more.
Speaker 1:No more.
Speaker 2:No more Enough.
Speaker 1:I mean, I created this iron table. I'm going to say something. I was just going to say that we have to remember that we are not the source of our significant other's happiness. We add to it. And if someone isn't happy inside on their own, it doesn't matter what we do. We will not be able to, we don't have the ability to sustain any one's happiness. It grows, point them back to God, jesus, whatever higher power they believe in. But as men we are, and it's like we're the icing on the cake. Sing on the cake. We can't. We are not designed to be the cake because the flavor changes as their needs change and grow and evolve.
Speaker 1:So we, you know, and I had to learn that, I had to learn that in previous relations I can't be your in the all be all. I don't have the emotional strength, I don't have the the mental strength to do that, and that's okay. So, a lot of brothers, if y'all they listen, you are not the source of her happiness, you are just in addition to that. Once you accept that you may move a little differently, those no's might come, the self-preservation might come. We're probably more kind than nice. Just, media said more that nice is the overarching umbrella when it should be kind is the overarching umbrella.
Speaker 2:It doesn't, and it don't matter how good that icing is, because if that cake is rotten, spoiled, or if it is missing ingredients, it ain't nothing that icing can do. Ain't nothing that icing can do to make that cake taste good, nothing.
Speaker 1:Okay, man, I'm going to step on this cake I didn't step on the cake okay man, I was just icing the cake is dirty there's nothing I could have done.
Speaker 2:The cake fell on the floor. The dog pissed on it okay, but icing, I'll say.
Speaker 1:the icing does change a cake, though it can take it to the next level.
Speaker 2:If you had a piece of pizza that's so good, but then the dog came and took a dump on it, would you still eat that pizza?
Speaker 1:Why is the pizza on the floor?
Speaker 2:Exactly, you don't eat a pizza off the floor, too, either, right?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Ain't nothing you can do about it. It's on the floor, all right, and I will say off the floor too either, right? No, Ain't nothing you can do about it. It's on the floor and I will say it is hard. It's hard for a lot of women to figure out what it is that makes them happy, Because they don't know A lot. When I tell you from couples counseling get married with the hope that that will happen, they do bring that.
Speaker 1:Remember. They're bombarded with the wedding, telling them that your happiness is based on this thing. Then you get it. You see another commercial saying you need this one. It's just constant.
Speaker 2:Chasing, infinity, chasing forever. What this constant chasing, infinity, chasing forever.
Speaker 1:And so it leads to a whole another conversation.
Speaker 2:But what do you do? Because now you are in a relationship with somebody who's looking for you to be the end of be all and they are still trying to figure some things out. And now you're getting blamed for their unhappiness when, again, you see, it's not me, it's you. Don't know what makes you happy. Recognize those red flags before you jump into a marriage. Never mind, let me stop.
Speaker 1:Let me stop the flags don't automatically pop out after you get married. It's like Minecraft, but you don't know. They just choose to ignore.
Speaker 2:We choose to ignore. We choose to ignore. There's also a scientific thing that I have where you can tell if somebody, just by looking at the eyes, we're going to have to go through that again. Just look at the eyes. I believe that I look at eyes, but I will say this.
Speaker 2:I will say this because I've seen a lot of this recently, but one guy actually had. Well, I mean, I'll put it this way, because I've seen this with couples where, because there are a lot of wonderful, nice women who just want to get married, they will play a role, academy Award winning role. Oh God Knowing they will do things. I mean. They will do things to get into the relationship.
Speaker 2:So these red flags that you're saying you should see a lot of times. One guy called it out. I don't. I'm seeing. You know, my caution is that when I get married, the true self and it does happen, the true self will show the true self.
Speaker 2:And it does happen, the true self will show, even though they waited like two, three, four, four years and there were signs again, but then once they got married, it's just like symbiotic comedians. Some things got to change around here. I don't like you. With your, I mean like no friends, no family, like now that we are married no friends, no family, no dog. Like just no video, like any sense of joy or happiness outside of me, out the window. It's just me. Now I got a real question. I know we at our, you know, past the hour mark, but the real question I have is when you are?
Speaker 2:maybe we need to save this for later no, no when a nice guy has, especially a woman who's crossed the line, whether that's physical, whether that is sexual indiscretion, is there a path to him being able to reestablish himself in healthy masculinity after she's been allowed free reign?
Speaker 2:to do whatever she wanted to do? And if so, what is that path For the nice guys who are out there, who have had some of the experiences that we've had, some of which we've spoken to, some of which we haven't? What's that path look like when there's been given free reign to do way more than you should ever try to do in the context of our relationship? How do we get to that reset button? How can we communicate to the men who are out there, nice guys who have given too much liberty to these women in their lives, to the point where it's destroyed everybody and everything? How do you get back to homeostasis?
Speaker 1:Okay, I got an answer for that. So this is what you do, you do, and then, after you do that you got to do, and then you ask God for help.
Speaker 2:Some of us got stories in here.
Speaker 1:I wish we could share all I mean we could share all I mean you can share. The iron table has crossed.
Speaker 2:We'll just say we know a client, we know a client. That's a tough one, danny. That's a really tough one. Because my first thought process is you know you talk about the path of least resistance to the front door, because at this point it takes a toll psychologically on a man when you're talking about those particular things, especially a nice man, because now you're toying with. You know I've done everything that I was supposed to do. I know what I could have done, because I see other brothers doing it and they're getting more than what I have gotten out of just being nice.
Speaker 2:When it starts with you and psychologically then you try to, then sometimes almost try to take on those roles of I'm going to knock you out, I'm going to do this. Well, you know that's not, that's not your persona or that's not, that's not, that's not how you raise and you know that's not what God intends for you. So sometimes it's best to leave something before it corrupts you. Sometimes it's, sometimes it's and it's hard to say, but sometimes you just got to leave well enough alone before it corrupts you and you become something that you and I always ask. I always ask men this in a relationship.
Speaker 2:I say do you ever think in your life that you love your wife or you love your spouse or what they say? Yeah? I said well, do you ever think and I said it's right in front of the spouse Do you ever think that you would ever put your hands on your spouse? Like no, never, never think that you would ever put your hands on your spouse? He's like no, never, never. I said don't ever say never, because anger and her actions will make you do things that you never thought that you would do. So that's why you have to have control over your emotions as a man and know when to just get get out of dodge. Because now, if your anger goes unchecked, if your emotions go unchecked, guess what? It's like a nuclear bomb going off, yeah, and now you're sitting in jail talking to somebody like Keith about hey, this one decision that you made has cost you 10 years of your life, right, man?
Speaker 1:Fellas, we've come to the end. It's been a pleasure. But before we go, you know, is there anything that you got to leave it out on the floor? That's what I told the guys yesterday and I was proud on the basketball court that we we left it out on the floor, we laid on the floor, we got knocked down on the floor. But if there's something, a salient point that you have for those who are listening both audibly and and also watching this, what is it that you have to say?
Speaker 2:say this, I think that the discussion was rich. For me, most important parting words is to evaluate whether or not your niceness is in line with true biblical masculinity, because nowhere in the Bible does it give the idea that we're just supposed to roll over and play dead right. That's. That's a common misnomer. One of my favorite um practical examples of this is in ecclesiastes, chapter three, which is the time for everything, everything, and a season for every activity under the sun All of them. And so if you don't have the other end inside of you, you need to reevaluate what you can do differently, otherwise you will be sabotaging your own relationships, like in the movie hitch, where he was um his, he found his girl and she was getting in the car with with another man and he's like I don't understand, I love, I love you, I love you and the dude who she's running off with. It's like, bro, you're doing it now, like you're doing the thing, so wait whether or not your
Speaker 2:niceness is really keeping you away from what true biblical masculinity is, because even God was like all right, yeah, I love you, but like my physical presence, yeah, I'll piggyback off of that too. You know, just thinking about what you're talking about. Back off of that too. You know, just thinking about what you're talking about. Um, you know, time for war, time for peace? Um, the world exists in duality. And if we don't have that, that balance with duality, just look around the world, just just how there's, there's the opposite of everything, the yin and the yang for everything, you know, um, if we don't have that, you know, it's not, it's not bad to be nice, but also understand there needs to be some boundaries as well as some balance to being nice, because if you have more of one thing in anything, you know it's bound for destruction, whether you're too nice or you're just, you're too mean. You know what I mean. And us as men, we have to understand that there's a very fine line between that that can, you know, potentially destroy us if we don't have that balance, you know. So just look at duality in the world and into how there's, there's a balance of everything and that that makes the world complete, you know. Final thoughts. I'm gonna pivot just a little bit, uh, because I've been talking about this all week and I'm still going into this next week talking about the same thing.
Speaker 2:As men, we often focus a lot on people outside of ourselves. A lot of us do Not all of us, do not ever all of us. But taking more time to figure out ourselves, meaning why am I a nice guy? How has that impacted me, how has that helped, how has that hurt? Figuring out. We talked about happiness. I know I focus on her happiness, the kids' happiness, making everybody at work happy. But what do I want for me? Because, again, we're pretty simple creatures for the most part, but we can.
Speaker 2:But our depression levels are through the roof. Our suicide rates are through the roof for a reason. So there's a lot of things that are not happening, though we know we, you know, though we say we know this, we're not. A lot of us aren't doing anything about it. So my, my final thoughts are while you're learning what makes what makes you nice and what makes you happy, figure out all the dynamics to what makes you tick as a human being and as a person. Have a more richer experience on this planet where it's not just about getting up, going to work, killing yourself, to come home and sit in front of the screen and be miserable and get up and repeat, or rinse and repeat. Get off the hamster wheel. So that's my final thought it's time to get off the hamster wheel, gentlemen.
Speaker 1:All right, Now I have to say that something my wife told me that you know, people will show you who they really are and when they do accept it and then finally find something to laugh at. Just find something to laugh at if it's not yourself. Find something. Laughter is a great release of tension and angst.
Speaker 2:But don't laugh at your woman while she's mad. That's bad. Ooh, I've done it. Oh, no, tears don't work here. No more, you'll find a way. Time and place. Time and place.
Speaker 1:Time and place again, fellas, thank you for your transparency, your honesty and you know just the insight. I'm fortunate to have you three as a part of this and look forward to the next time that we meet peace. We meet Peace.
