The Iron Table
The Iron Table
Don't Talk, JUST Listen: Incentives or Consequence, What Motivates a Man!
What truly motivates a person—rewards or repercussions? Join Bryant, Keith, Danny, and Steve as we tackle this age-old debate by sharing candid personal stories and laugh-out-loud moments from daily life. From dissecting the incentives that make chores bearable to the looming consequences that push us to excel at work, we unravel the complex threads of motivation. You'll hear how incentives and consequences are not just about carrots and sticks but about understanding what truly drives change and growth in our lives.
As the conversation flows, we delve into the shifting sands of relationships and the intrinsic motivations that steer our actions over the years. Ever wondered why some people stay in relationships and others stray? We reflect on the core values that evolve as we age, the role of genuine incentives over fear, and how religious and philosophical teachings can offer surprising insights into love and fidelity. It's a discussion that challenges you to rethink what fulfillment means in the context of personal development and partnerships, offering fresh perspectives on familiar themes like trust and companionship.
Finally, we navigate the labyrinth of communication with humor and honesty, examining why saying "I'm sorry" isn't as simple as it sounds. From the art of timing to the strategy of setting relationship rules, we share practical advice that can help you foster a healthier partnership. Our talk is peppered with anecdotes and insights into the dynamics of appreciation, misunderstandings, and conflict resolution—highlighting the essence of true communication as seeing through a loved one's eyes and hearing with their ears. So, if you're ready for a meaningful conversation that sharpens your understanding of human connection, pull up a chair at The Iron Table and join the discussion.
Welcome to the iron table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. I am your host, bryant Goddine, and I'm joined by my brothers, keith, danny and Steve. We're your waiters, serving you accountability and truth. We now bring you to our program already in progress. Welcome to the Iron Table. We're Iron Sharpens Iron, so should men sharpen men. We had a little technical difficulties, but we felt like you needed to hear that twice, so you know exactly who we are. We are the Iron Table, not that Iron Table, not this iron table, but the iron table. And, as I said, my name is Brian Cadine. I brought to the table three of the of the smartest, finest, most versatile gentlemen that I know and, as you see, we're in four different areas, so we're coming from four different perspectives. Before we get started, I just want to check in with the guys and just see how they're doing, what they've been up to, and then we'll get right into today's discussion. We'll start with Danny.
Speaker 2:Yeah, doing good, a little under the weather, but grateful to be here at the table.
Speaker 1:Steve, you want to move?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, doing pretty decent on the way to church. Everything's going pretty good, everything's been smooth, everything's been smooth. I'm blessed. It's been smooth, everything's been smooth, everything's been smooth, it's been smooth.
Speaker 2:Steve looks like he belongs in an episode of something like the Black GI Joe guy or something.
Speaker 1:This is what Roblox does on his off time.
Speaker 2:Bad boys, bad boys. He brought in his missing brother. Bad boys, bad boys, I think he brought in his missing brother.
Speaker 1:All right Deacon.
Speaker 4:Man, I'm glad to be alive. I've been running for Jesus but I like to slow down and take a minute always to get it in. Get the table on yeah things have been pretty smooth for me.
Speaker 1:If my eyes look tired, I can go to bed until late, wake up early and try to go back to sleep. You know how that goes. Once you're up, you're up. That's here too. You got to keep moving, let's see. So we got the table today Basketball practice Iron Table does fund a start of a church league basketball team.
Speaker 2:You got to get in shape for that.
Speaker 1:Our minds may still be thinking it's the 90s, we might have been at our basketball prime, but our bodies are telling us it's 2024. We're moving as long as no one gets seriously hurt. We know we're going to get hurt, but seriously hurt that's the daily prayer. All right, fellas, because we want to make sure that Steve gets to the church on time to meet you.
Speaker 3:We got a good hour.
Speaker 1:I know you're good with Jesus. We didn't question if you were good with Jesus. We want to make sure that you get there safely. I only got two questions today. We'll start with this one Incentives or consequences. What motivates a man to do something?
Speaker 2:We almost had an automatic response.
Speaker 1:Think about it. Let me give you some context. I was talking to my wife and I was telling her about my son. I said I remember growing up we it was due. As I say. So, either either if you, you know, you did all your chores, you got an allowance so you were incentivized to do what was told, or if you don't do this, I'm going to whip your butt. And so there was consequences. But either one of them, there's the positive side and there's the negative side.
Speaker 1:Either one of them moved me to do whatever it is I was told to do so as a young man, and I mean even we go through school. You do your work, you study, you're more likely to pass the test. You pass the test, you get a good grade. Good grades mean better opportunities. Work you do your job. If you don't do your job, you get fired. So when in relationships does the same thing work, do we work off of incentives or do we work best off of consequences?
Speaker 4:In short, I feel it's both. In short, I feel it can be both. It depends on the person too. But even as children, little boys, you can hear a warning 50 million times. You can hear a warning 50 million times. But until some people, until that warning is met with, it, was reinforced with some type of physical correction or some type of consequence I know I'm saying beating, but even other forms of punishment where he attacks, lack of action, then again we can make that association. We can grow up and make the mistake of being unfaithful and meanwhile she's telling him the whole time if you do this, I'm going to leave you.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't want to talk about that.
Speaker 4:yesterday he's going to make me leave somebody else. He leaves Now. He's ready to be like no, no, no, baby come back. And it's like no, I told you, if you did this, this was the consequence. So sometimes I'm saying all this to say that for many of us, yes, we need incentives, but we also need consequences. It's dire.
Speaker 1:So I want to piggyback on what you said. So if there's threats, are you saying that we don't move off of threats Because you keep saying I'm going to leave. I'm going to leave Like whatever, whatever, until she actually has her bags packed and walking out the door?
Speaker 4:You see the episode of Martin. I know it's a TV show, but he's like step, oh kid, because he didn't believe it. But then when she gets up and goes, no baby, please, please, don't leave me, don't leave me, don't leave me, don't leave me, don't leave me, don't leave me, I'm playing. I'm playing, yeah, because sometimes it is, and it's not the same thing for everybody. It's not the same thing all the time. It can be just straight up neglect, where we just don't care, we don't really believe you and we're not going to move. Or it can be something that our headspace may not be where you are and we focus on something. It can be. There's a lot of reasons why men are sometimes in our own world and not really focused on what we're often told we should be focused on. But there are reasons. But then there are times that there how can I put this? There are times that certain actions have to be.
Speaker 3:it has to be shown that if these things are not working, the possibility of this consequence is real, it's inevitable and, unfortunately, because we don't always think it's a possibility, we don't always take it seriously you know, and I think that I think sometimes it just depends on where you're at in life and the maturity level too, because at certain points in your life you know certain things that are not a priority or you look at things a little bit differently. You know, it's as if, like you, know you certain things that we value. You know what I mean. Does that you know the consequence for not valuing time? How does that feel at the age of 25 versus the age of 55?
Speaker 3:You know, knowing that maybe you got a lot more years behind you than ahead of you. You know you value your time, you value your peace. You know you value not arguing in a relationship. You know more than you know when you were 25. You know. So I think it kind of also depends on not only your maturity level but just where you're at in life as far as you know what you're willing to do and not do. What you're willing to do and not do, as well as understanding to us as men, especially when we're talking about the practice of cheating in a relationship. A lot of times we don't think that what we do the woman's going to do, but then when the woman does it too, we can't take it.
Speaker 2:We can't take it at all.
Speaker 3:It's like. I've counseled many men where they're like hey, I'm doing this, I'm, I did that, she found out about this. She found out about that. She winked at another dude oh, it's the end of the world. It's the end of the world. So you know, it's like it's it's, you know. I'll give you an example of you know where.
Speaker 3:You know, um, there was a, a person who, uh, got caught cheating. Um, there's the answer to the, the, the. The response was just say, hey, let's go out and be um, have an open relationship, right? Um, I guess he thought that she wasn't gonna do it and she did it, and that just kind of warped his mind. Because, you know, it's like how dare she? But we as men have a, we have a reality where, yes, but you've been doing far worse. You know this little thing that she did. You know if she was to do the same thing. You know but little thing that she did. You know if she was to do the same thing, like you know. But again, go back to where we're at and what's valuable at that point in time. You know, sometimes some people don't value marriage until you 50 or 60, you know that's true, and you literally need each other to walk.
Speaker 2:One can see one can hear it's like baby you can't leave. I can't see, I can't hear. I said baby you can't leave. I can't see, I can't see.
Speaker 4:I can't hear nothing.
Speaker 1:I can't see where you're going, so I would.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, no. I just want to throw mine in there. I had some technical difficulties. From the standpoint of what I've learned about human behavior and education, one of the best motivators is intrinsic motivators. People work better, generally speaking. Not that you can't get them to move when you whip out the belt we're talking about kids. You can get them to move, but you really see their heart when it's just like they're going to get something from it.
Speaker 2:Case in point if a dude knows he's going to get something if he knows it's guaranteed and it's not going to be that lay on the back, but it's going to be like she's going to put it down.
Speaker 4:Paint that house with a toothbrush.
Speaker 1:But that requires actual follow through of a promise or of an incentive. So what happens when that doesn't happen?
Speaker 2:in a period of time. Then what I use, the quarter by quarter and the gumball machine analogy how many quarters are you going to put in before you stop? It's just like hold up. It said I was supposed to get a gumball, you might put two Might Maybe. Usually it's just that one. It's saying give me my gumballs, I ain't putting another gumball in there.
Speaker 1:I'm about to go play and if we continue to do it, that means we got a gambling addiction if it don't turn out right so where does nagging fit into this equation?
Speaker 2:I don't want to talk about that, because the realities are. There are some times when we need them to artfully be insistent about something that needs to be done Because we wouldn't take it seriously.
Speaker 4:That was very artistic.
Speaker 1:I can't remember what he said. Can you say it again?
Speaker 2:No, yeah, we try. There are times when we need their incessant reminders to push us to do things that need to get done, and we wouldn't do it if they didn't push all the way. And so there's times when it's just like, yeah, I heard her, but now it's just like, oh, my goodness, if it's going to make you.
Speaker 1:But when it happens Needs to happen, more incentives.
Speaker 2:Well, I think that incentive is that they work hand in hand, right? I'm just saying that. What I've, what I've observed, is, in general, people work a lot more when they are motivated by the desire to gain something. It's a little different. So, case in point, like let's take church, for instance All right, so there's some people who just don't want to go to hell. Right, all right, but that's bad motivation. Like to the point that even in the Beatitudes, it's just like and you know the Sermon on the Mount, yeah, when you give, do it like this. When you pray, do it like that. When you fast, make sure you do it like this, otherwise it doesn't count.
Speaker 2:And the love chapter in first Corinthians 13, it's like if I, if I surrender my body to the flames but have not the right motive, it's useless as a resounding gong. It's a clean symbol. It's pointless. It has to be the motivation of love. If love isn't compelling you that I don't want to go to hell, religion is not going to result in a life giving relationship with Jesus Christ. And so we end up obeying, trying not to burn up. But the wrong motive makes the right thing neutral, it neutralizes it in the sight of God. We got to do it from the right motive, because if not, it doesn't count, and so I don't know if that makes any sense. No, it does.
Speaker 1:It's like you said, it's the you have to have either want to do it because you want to do it or just not, cause if I don't really see the benefit in it for me, or or something that I want to do, I'm less likely to do it, and it might require extra motivation in order to do something because I don't see the same need. But then, as men are, we to then tune our minds, tune our vision, to see that what may not be a need for us is a need for them that they may not be able to do.
Speaker 1:So is it our responsibility to kind of self-motivate to get things done, or do we say, well, you know, hey, when I did these five things, this is what I got in return. So you know you might need to pick it up a little. You know for me to also pick it up a little. No it is they're supposed to be give and take, balance in in things and requests and requests and, um, yeah, I would say like you got to be like.
Speaker 2:A thriving relationship is one where both needs are mutually being met, mutually beneficial relationship. So I don't care how you feel like that's going to be an imbalance and it's going to cause somebody to be frustrated and it's going to break all the way down. And so I'm not saying that you're always able to have equilibrium and a balance it's never 50-50, but you should care that somebody's in distress. To a large extent, I'm not in charge of your happiness. So just to make that clear.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, like your, your social, emotional state, it matters to me, and if there's something I can do to alleviate some frustration on your end, why wouldn't I do it? Unless there's, you know, some conflict of a principle that I'm upholding. So I would just say you need both. Like God was like, yeah, the day that you eat the rabbit, you will surely die. He wasn't just talking about you need both, you need both of them. But I think that it goes without saying that that intrinsic motivation is. It's really really, really important, because if you do the right thing for the wrong reasons and God's like it doesn't count.
Speaker 3:That's well, you know what that's. That's well, you know what that's that's well, look how god worked. Because now I was feeling a certain way because I just got a message that they canceled church. While I'm halfway there and here come danny talking about some uh, you know, you gotta, that was right on, that was right on. But you know, that goes to show you like, hey, sometimes when you do what it is that you're supposed to do, you don't always get your desired outcome. You know you got to be okay with it true.
Speaker 4:that is that is true with this life. Um, there's a lot of men who because, again, like you said, as it pertains to the relationship men and women, there's a lot of men who because, again, like you said, as it pertains to the relationship of men and women, there's a lot of men who are trying to anticipate and do the right thing and meet needs and it doesn't always go the way they expect it to go, because there are some women who don't appreciate or don't always express their appreciation or they don't know. So you have a lot of men who do spin their tails and I hear it a lot. I just don't feel appreciated in my house. I don't always express their appreciation or they don't know. So you have a lot of men who do spin their tails and I hear it a lot. I just don't feel appreciated in my house. I don't feel appreciated. And I will say, with grandmas and great grandmas, I see, dudes, they were different, they were a different beast my man.
Speaker 4:Get my daddy to lay a whole roof, and just by going up there. Look at my man. Look at him. He's so strong. Bring him a glass of Kool-Aid and that's all he needs.
Speaker 3:I'm glad you said that. What does appreciation look like? I hear so many men say that I don't appreciate it, but what does it really look like, and does it differ from person to person?
Speaker 4:That's my favorite question. I'll let y'all answer.
Speaker 1:first I'll say it does differ from person to person because that goes into. It reminds me of that book Five Love Languages. Appreciation is the action is reciprocated in a way that I understand that. You appreciate it. You know, I know my wife likes acts of service, so I try to do more stuff around the house to alleviate, you know, the burden of work of parenting and I have the bandwidth to do more things.
Speaker 1:My love language is time, Time and I would say, and gifts. So when she does have the time, she spends it. If not, and goes to the store, it might be something about like bringing back some, some watermelon juice. It's not expensive, but it's just like hey, let me know that you were thinking of me with the time that you had, and so I know that you're appreciative of it. There's some other things she does, you know, as wives they do, um, to let us know that they're appreciative of it, and so, uh, it, it, it. I think it goes back to really understanding your mate and asking, like you know, how do you understand my appreciation? Ask that question. You know, oftentimes that question isn't asked.
Speaker 3:But see, here's the thing when I ask people these questions when they're going through distress in their relationships, what I feel is like when people have really checked out, sometimes they use that as a cop-out. When it's like, oh, I don't want to say that I'm done with this relationship and just putting it on the other person, we're just going to put it on the other person and say they don't do x, y and z, I don't feel appreciated. But maybe that person does. But it's a very easy cop-out to just say I don't feel like I'm appreciated, I don't feel like they do this, when in reality they probably do. But we are just warped in our minds of not taking responsibility, ownership of saying I'm done with the relationship. We throw it back on them.
Speaker 4:I work with couples that do that when they actually sat down in session and not that we needed to go tit for tat. But when we start exposing what was done, in the intentionality behind why it was done, it was like oh, so you did like yeah, I did that for you because of this. Oh well, I just thought you know, because I knew you.
Speaker 4:you weren't feeling well, so I just offered to take the kids to school, or I picked them up or I fed. You know I got dinner or no. It wasn't out of selfish motivation, it was because I saw you and I recognized you, but because when we get angry we like to shut down. We like to shut down and we stop talking. And sometimes that's for a reason, because I've seen some guys who can't talk in their relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So how I see that being a bigger problem in a lot of relationships where guys feel like they can't talk, but when we often are able to talk and speak to it, I'm going to just say it Most times we are speaking to a space of emotions. Just say it Most times we are speaking to a space of emotions, yeah, and we're coming with our logic to those emotions. Sometimes that emotion don't want to hear no logic, even if it makes complete sense. That emotion says you hurt my feelings, that's all I care about right now, and that can be hard. We're like I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, though.
Speaker 1:This was my intent. Keith is speaking. The next question, so I'm going to say this Explain why men defend themselves when accused of doing something or not doing something. Is it a lack of accountability or are they just giving context?
Speaker 2:I would rephrase the question when is it a lack of accountability, versus just giving context?
Speaker 2:Because I think that it's human nature to if somebody's coming at you like, yes, that's human nature, you could argue that till we blew in the face. But, um, each one of us has a perspective and, um, most times what I found in working with couples is you have two relatively good people that are just on two separate pages and it takes some type of mediation to say, hey, this is what I was trying to say. That don't make no sense, though, but understand it from my lens, understand it from my perspective, understand where my unique life experiences have created this frame that has me seeing things this way. I ain't saying it's right, I'm just saying that it is. And when we're learning how to build those skills and being able to stand in the shoes of the other person, to be able to acknowledge something that we don't necessarily like, understanding that this is where that person is, I think, sometimes, most of the conversations, I think, is people just trying to give that context on their perspective, because if somebody doesn't feel heard, what are they going to keep doing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, crying out loud.
Speaker 2:They're going to keep trying to make sure that you get it, especially when you care about the relationship. So I say, all that time you know, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Let me ask you about that. That one phrase I don't feel heard. Do sometimes people just say it Do sometimes people use that phrase to say I don't feel heard? But what they really mean is you're not agreeing with me.
Speaker 2:And I think that's a compound.
Speaker 3:That's another compound too, because so many times I just don't feel like you hear me.
Speaker 4:No, you want me to agree with you. I don't agree with you, I don't feel like it's true. And you're not agreeing with me, because sometimes you're hearing what I'm saying, but you don't understand me. And then it's that part you hear me, you don't understand me and you're not agreeing with me, like, okay, I hear you, I understand you.
Speaker 2:Or you heard me, but you're not listening. You're not listening.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you're not listening. I just don't agree. I don't agree with you.
Speaker 1:You're wrong.
Speaker 2:I feel you're wrong If you're listening to reply instead of listening to understand. Like I don't care what gender you are and we do that as man. We we're listening and we're ready to come back with our logical response, and that's not gonna get you nowhere. Like that's grammatically incorrect on purpose, it's gonna get you know. Well, babe, like we'll just do this, do this, you're gonna be in the doghouse, and so, like the thing that they want is to be heard, to feel understood. That's an innate human need and I think that sometimes what I have found I don't know if y'all can speak to this because we're trying to bring a gender distinction what I have found is that a lot of times, men don't feel heard. We're not as good at communicating, we haven't worked out in the gymnasium of communication as much as our female counterparts have, and so we don't have the words and they just come in and they just like boom, boom, boom and they remember all the minute detail.
Speaker 1:Nick Croft and Tristan got an eye Wait a minute. So having a level of words means that you're a better communicator.
Speaker 2:No, I'm going to pass the baton to Keith and Steve on that. I'm just asking. Keith has some theories on that.
Speaker 4:Remind the table. Use your words. I don't believe that women are better communicators. I believe that they just use more words. I believe that they they can spit out their thoughts a lot quicker than we can, because when we have time to pause, think, and that's why I continue to tell men to do whatever you got to do. Get your thoughts out your head. When you can see it on paper in front of you, you realize my thoughts do make sense. So when you do sit down at the table to discuss what's happening, you can articulate a little better and it does quell. Sometimes it will completely quench, it'll put out that fire for some people. Because I'm not crazy. I know what I said and I know how I feel and I know what I'm thinking and what I often tell men. I say this at least three or four times a week If you know what you're thinking, everybody else can't tell you what you were thinking that part. Say that again.
Speaker 2:Say that for the people in the back If you don't know what you're thinking.
Speaker 4:A lot of other people can't tell you what you were thinking. I've been told. Oh well, when you, when, when this happened, you were thinking, I've been told, oh well, when this happened, you were thinking this. No, I wasn't. I'm going to tell you what I was thinking because I'm me and I've processed my thoughts and this is what I was thinking when that was happening. You're telling me what you believe I was thinking, or your interpretation of my silence. My silence wasn't me thinking this. My silence was I'm not trying to kill you today or Whatever it is. I'm not arguing today, but it wasn't.
Speaker 4:But when we, as men, take the time to process our thoughts and we take the time to unpack our own feelings and write them down, make it plain, we can go back to a space of emotion and we can manage it a lot better because we're not getting into the tug of war of words. Well, you meant this. No, I didn't Like. Because, again, a lot, of, a lot of disagreements never get fixed because we're too busy. Tug of war we're, we're at odds, we're arguing.
Speaker 3:And that's what I always have to tell. Again, I had to extensively tell a couple, even this weekend. They kept on saying I feel like he's doing it, I feel like she's doing it, I feel like okay. First and foremost, we got to get out of our feelings because what you're talking about is just an assumption or theoretical.
Speaker 4:They're going to take your life, steve, you told people not to.
Speaker 3:No, no, no because here's the thing you feel something, but the person right next to you, you can just ask them hey, I felt like and I told him to do this I felt like when you said this you were being mean and condescending or anything like that. That's how I felt. Is that what you mean? And then let the person respond, because right now you're going off of feelings and assumptions and theoretical guesses that could be completely in your mind so ask the person next next to you does that is?
Speaker 3:is my, is my, is my guess reality, and then go from there but what does a man do when he does that?
Speaker 2:and this ain't my story.
Speaker 1:It's like he says this is what I felt and he has the opportunity to say well, I'm sorry, I felt that way. This is what I meant.
Speaker 2:That's a dangerous phrase.
Speaker 1:That's a dangerous phrase.
Speaker 2:All right, I'm sorry you felt that way. It's pretty much I apologize, but and then usually that ain't going very. So then what is the right phrase? It's pretty much I apologize, but and then usually that ain't going very so then, what is the right phrase?
Speaker 1:you can?
Speaker 3:insert something right there. I'm sorry, I made you feel that way. Take the ownership on. Hey, you know what?
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, I made you feel that way that was not my intent that key right there because there's a major difference when you just say I'm sorry you that made you feel that way.
Speaker 3:That was not my intent, that key right there, Because there's a major difference. When you just say I'm sorry, you felt that way, you put it back on them like it's almost their fault. But when you say I'm sorry, I and it's mental chess.
Speaker 2:It's all of this, yeah semantics.
Speaker 3:It's mental chess. So that way you don't have an argument. It's mental chess, so that way you don't have an argument, because that disagreement can turn into an argument very quickly. Then that argument can turn into a fight. Just because I forgot to say I'm sorry, I made you feel that way.
Speaker 2:Just like that. I wanted to make sure that we are giving these men.
Speaker 1:You know, have friends, have boys that can say wait a minute.
Speaker 3:We need to just get a t-shirt. Just get a t-shirt that says I'm sorry, I made you feel that way. Just get a t-shirt and just wear it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you still got to be careful, though, because I ain't talking about what I've done with others. I'm talking about what I'm still mastering myself. It's just like some days, it's just like I need to apologize. It's like, well, go ahead, keith, go ahead.
Speaker 4:Go ahead, bro. Do we tell the truth as men? Do we over-apologize? Absolutely, and some days I'm like that's one validation of what I already hey, you do know that when?
Speaker 1:Because we don't want to argue, oh, my goodness, you know what's going to happen right.
Speaker 2:I don't care who cares, it's the iron table, and so, like the goal is peace, like I just want peace, you know, I just want peace, that's it.
Speaker 1:But you know, buffing my corner of the table to make sure that it stays shiny. Y'all seem like whatever chisel it wild a little bit. We'll just slide a little piece of cardboard underneath it.
Speaker 3:But you know, at some point we do choose violence, at some point it gets to be enough, like, okay, no we gonna have a talk right now.
Speaker 2:I think that's when we've gone without feeling as though we were heard for an extended period of time. It's like the dam, just it breaks, and it's like shaking up a can of soda. When is it?
Speaker 1:the right time to tell a significant other that either there's an unmet need or that you have a need, or that you express some disappointment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that um, so I have this went off camera.
Speaker 1:You can't answer that.
Speaker 2:For me that that's unique to to a couple. So I have this continuum in my, in my first book, where it's called the I Got Issues With you Continuum. On one side of the continuum you've got people who almost never bring anything up, and then, on the other side of this continuum, people who almost always bring. Every time you walk in the door it's something else. Which extreme is bad for the relationship, both of them with two f's, and so we've got to find some type of equilibrium where we're able to, um, have confined to a period of time. There's one that the co-host of my, the growing love show, ellery, she talks about john lund. This, uh, this couple, um, I think they're couples coaches or therapists, and they have 15 minutes every day. He got 7.5, she got 7.5 and at the end of that, 7.5, that's it like, and so it's it's able to what.
Speaker 2:What that strategy does is that there's a time for it. If there's never a time for it, then it's able to what. What that strategy does is that there's a time for it. If there's never a time for it, then it's going to feel like it's always time. We're going back to that shaken up soda can. This is like he bought the verse. Right now, he don't care that it's not the time for us to have day, night or whatever, and so I would say just each individual couple needs to have a system where they they have those check-ins, some type of system of check-ins. We got systems of check-in for our vehicles we check that oil, we rotate them tires. We got systems of check-in for our businesses we check them financials, the P&L, you know the balance sheet. We got systems for our health.
Speaker 1:We got the mammograms, the prostate exam. We got to have a system.
Speaker 2:You know it's about things exam we got to have a system Things that don't have feelings. Yes, I know, but I'm saying that in my experience. The whole point of me writing my first book was giving people a systematic way to manage the health of their romantic relationships, because you can't just get in the car and drive to California and think that you're not going to need some gas, you're not going to change the oil. You can try.
Speaker 4:Exactly Whatever you're going to. I mean, you can try Exactly and so whatever you're going to do, Wholeheartedly. But I think, if I collaborate on what Good Eye is saying or is alluding to. Yeah, sometimes feelings don't care about your system, and I know we're supposed to. Yes, absolutely. I don't want to talk about this, you're right, because you're attacking me and I feel like you're getting on my nerves. So we're not meeting today.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 4:And so we have a system in place. I don't feel like I want to or I just don't feel like I want to do something else. Forget your system.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not going to know when your alternator is going to be out, like it's just going to happen, like there ain't no system to figure that out, and there ain't no system to figure that out, and so there's going to be that. But, by and large, if we have some type of a system, it can keep you from reaching a crisis, like if you're taking your vehicle, if you're taking your marriage in. Like I know some of you are big believers in getting relationship counseling yourselves. Why? Because you know that if you're going to get them checkups, then it's going to. Yeah, that check engine light can stay off a little longer. Does that mean you're not going to break down? Nah, you're going to break down, you're going to be on the side of the road, you're going to need a tow truck. But the thing that I'm trying to say is you can prevent a lot of that. You can't prevent all of it.
Speaker 3:Go ahead. You got to also couple that, also like what you were saying, with I don't want to say extreme boundaries, but some, some, some definitely. I don't say ground rules, but boundaries like within the car. You don't always are supposed to go 150 miles an hour because something's going to happen. You can play russian roulette with it when you want or you don't go driving very fast on slippery roads or whatnot. And I liken that to a relationship, to where I always tell couples hey, have a system of boundaries where you put in place, hey, you know what, if something happened 30 days ago, right, we cannot talk about it. We can talk about it all the way up until the 29th day, but on day 30, you better shut up about it. That's it. Get it all out within 29 days, but 30 days or go 90 days.
Speaker 3:Or go a year.
Speaker 1:Feelings do not operate in a linear.
Speaker 3:But here you go. If I feel like I want to do 170 miles an hour, guess what? When the consequence comes where I flip this car over and kill myself, I got to be okay with that consequence Because I did not go through the constraints of my boundaries of preserving my life. You're talking about preserving your relationship, so if I want to let my feelings get in the way of preserving my relationship, so be it then. But now the consequences. Don't be mad when you get the consequences of. You didn't cuss him or her out to the point to where he don't want to talk to you. You don't want to talk to him. And now guess what? Wandering eyes. Now we got temptation, all because you did not, all because you got in your feelings and you did not want to preserve your relationship. And I hear to them but still one of them.
Speaker 1:And I have to say this as men we cannot even if we're treated that way, I'll tell anyone get divorced.
Speaker 1:Don't add the label of cheater to that all day, but just because we're treated that way we can't just say, okay, well, she's doing this to me, I'm going to start having wandering eyes and I'm going to start cheating, because we cannot put our actions on someone else. We have accountability. But you're asking someone, who? You're asking women who feel more, who are more into just their feelings, maybe feelings of others, to hold themselves to pause.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:If I do this, this will happen and I've got to be prepared and accepted. But then if we do something that you know give back that same energy, we're still in the wrong.
Speaker 3:But here's the thing I'm not going to just say women, but men in general too. Everybody else can do it everywhere else in life At their jobs, at church, in public. Everybody has boundaries and they adhere to those boundaries. But when we get to a relationship, it's just oh, I was in my feelings, I just did what I wanted to do. No, you have the ability to hold yourself accountable in all these other areas because you don't feel like there's a true consequence to you getting in your feelings in this relationship. You feel now you can just do whatever you want to do, not suffer the consequence. I was upset, okay, and I was too, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so um but then who?
Speaker 1:Who is the I don't want to say bigger person? And it's because I don't have the longest sense of words, but someone has to throw a flag on the play and say let's just stop it. You know, neither one of us wants to be the first to say goodbye.
Speaker 3:I always put it back a lot of times. I put it back on the man because I say, look, we have sometimes the energy, we have the power to sometimes control energy and let energy to continue to go on at a certain point in time and to a certain extent we can. We can control the energy that's in the room. As a head of the household, as a man, I'll be a firm believer. Look, just the other day I got some negative energy that was thrown at me in the store and guess what? I chose violence that day. I got it and I gave it right back and guess what? And guess what? I was okay with the consequence. I was okay. I was okay.
Speaker 3:I chose violence that day. That was my fault. I could okay, I chose violence that day. That was my fault. I could have. Instead of giving her that exact, instead of giving that exact energy back, I could have just said you know what? I could have went and turned around and just said, hey, you know what. What you said kind of made me feel a certain way I may not have known it.
Speaker 2:It's a time and a place, like Ecclesiastes 3.1 says, it's a time for everything.
Speaker 1:It's a time for every activity. When we say violence, we're not talking about violence. Yes.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no, unless you're coming at me with some kind of evidence.
Speaker 1:It's no longer violence.
Speaker 2:We talked about that. That's clear. We're not taking blows.
Speaker 1:We can defend. We will block.
Speaker 3:There will be verbal violence.
Speaker 1:I want to make sure our table stays. We've been saying some stuff when it goes now. This is cool. I feel like Deacon Jones is skirting. I still haven't heard when is a good time in order to say I don't hear nothing.
Speaker 4:What'd you say?
Speaker 1:I said I'm still waiting for the exact time to say, hey, I'm not. This need is not getting met. When is a good time to express man's feelings, what I'm hearing or what I know from a lot of this need is not getting met.
Speaker 4:When is a good time to express man's feelings, what I'm hearing or what I know from a lot of people?
Speaker 1:Are you in a car wash?
Speaker 4:Sorry, I turned on the air conditioner. We do things and I can't speak because I know every relationship is different. There are some relationships where the men are actually the more easily triggered or more emotional. I think it's hard for us men to communicate because we are actually with the, and I don't think a lot of women realize most of us. I put it to someone this week this way it's like double Dutch we looking for a good time to bring this up and it never. With everything going on in the world, it never seems like a good time to just jump in and bring up this issue. If she feels like she's being attacked at work, if she's training her, if she feels like and now here you come with your issue with her as well, you already know where this is going.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Catch all of it. All of it. We're waiting for the time we really need to bring this up, when.
Speaker 2:Bring it up to your friends. I definitely know that that's going to be a challenge. Double dutch, I don't know that there's ever a right time for everything, but yeah, as the situation escalates sometimes, you just got to interrupt. I will say this After somebody comes home from a long day of work, that's always the wrong time, always, like you know, they just woke up I don't know like I. I think that we can get more strategic about all. Right, I have to bring this up.
Speaker 2:I would argue yeah, I would dare say that I have had success in a previous relationship with um, bringing certain things up after a time and a season of of physical intimacy Right there, right there and so, and so you're, you're able to have like a physical closeness that oftentimes, when you're like playing badminton, you know it's just like go ahead. I'm not saying that you're always goingminton Go ahead. I'm not saying that you're always going to be able to do that. I'm just saying that you can be strategic with life. It's strategic.
Speaker 4:A lot of cars have been bought, a lot of things have been paid because women do the same. Some women know men are more vulnerable after physical intimacy it's, and so it is a space and place where we're able to communicate, actually even us we. We actually find our words a little better.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely don't do it, you gotta know your woman or your man.
Speaker 3:You you know what I mean With mine. I know, hey, if we go shoot pool, we got a chance to actually talk with each other. We can really get close. If there's something really really that we didn't talk about, hey, we need to probably be in an environment where we're by ourselves but still doing something, but still in a point that we're in close proximity to talk. I know with her it's pool to the point that we're in close proximity to talk. So I know with her it's pool, we can go shoot pool and talk and it's cool, it's our safe place. You got to know your spouse and understand, oh, that ain't that good, but I just know that, hey, for her that's what works. You got to know who your spouse, your mate you better have and understand what works.
Speaker 3:Just don't piss her off with that pool stick in her hand, ah, ah.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you and this is a curveball question If a man gets into a physical altercation with his woman and she whoops his behind. Can he recover from that?
Speaker 2:Yeah. No, he need to leave. Both of them need to go somewhere else. It's not Anytime a relationship is getting into. You need a break. You need a physical break from that relationship because you cross it. That's out of bounds. So what's underlying to some of this discussion is what are the rules for managing our healthy relationship? Like we, we know where every game chess it has rules. Basketball has rules. What are the rules? And we can, I think, a lot of times being frustrated because we'll sit up and we'll have a discussion and we'll determine the rules and then we'll be in a conversation and she goes out of bounds, oh boy.
Speaker 4:Y'all are so unfair.
Speaker 3:Y'all shouldn't have brought this up, and so it's just like you have church today, and so it's just like you didn't have church today yeah and I don't have a whole lot because I have enough commitment to get to.
Speaker 2:But, like, what are the rules? What are the rules that are managing our, our relationship? Because if everything goes, then you're going to end up in in guerrilla warfare. It's like Nam. If everything goes, then you're going to end up in guerrilla warfare. It's like nah, it's not going to really be a winnable fight. Right, you got to have something there.
Speaker 4:How do we set rules Because I think a lot of men don't even think about that. From a place, it's sort of to be expected, but often couples don't really talk in the sense that what's red light, green light, what's good, what's not good? How do we establish that?
Speaker 2:I think with help. You shouldn't try to do it by yourself.
Speaker 1:You can try to do that at the next one.
Speaker 3:We can and I think also looking at recognizing red flags in the beginning, seeing those red flags for what they are. They are not a green flag, they are not a yellow flag, they are not a fusion of green and yellow. They are a red flag. And they're there for a reason. And God shows those, gives us those insights, for a reason. He's telling you what you got to give for the rest of your life.
Speaker 4:She tickles my feet, man. She tickles my feet like nobody else. I never met nobody who tickled my feet like this. We'll give you a right call.
Speaker 3:She's going to bust you upside your head when she's feeling like you ain't heard her.
Speaker 1:We're going to have to add that. I wrote down those three questions. We will talk about that at the next Iron Tape. What are the rules of a relationship, how do you set them and what do you do when the rules are broken?
Speaker 3:we might have to go weekly because we're going to have to finish this, we're going to have to finish this, but alright, fellas, you know it's about that time.
Speaker 1:I'd like to end with just a parting words or final thoughts. Let's try to make it quick, because I hope Danny can stay, but I think he might have to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would just say that You're going to have challenges in whatever relationship that you're in. You don't have to toss the baby out with the bathwater when things get hard, but you shouldn't try to do it alone. Anyway, we we as guys we understand the necessity of coaching in every other round. Like champions, they have coaches, they have other people that are helping them win. And in our romantic relationship, I think it's good to have those strategic partnerships.
Speaker 2:Far too often couples that I have seen they're in isolation and indefinitely. They are just like on this downward spiral that results in. I call this it's almost like a death spiral with alligators and like you just spend it, yeah, you just spend it, but you're not going anywhere, but down to your death. So just understanding that relationships can be challenging, they can be hard, but you don't have to do them alone, it's a whole lot easier. Just like if your car is giving you problems, if your body is hurting, you will go to a specialist. Do the same thing for your relationship. And that goes for all relationships parent, child, co-worker, boss Like it's OK to get help. And so I would just encourage men to open yourself up, because this is the iron table, for a reason, as iron sharpens iron, so one man can sharpen one another, and so I would just say yo get some iron, because trying to do it alone, why do that? And when you could get somebody to help sharpen that saw, all right.
Speaker 3:I say choose violence, but I do say you have a choice. You have a choice. Everything that happens, there is a choice. Whether I choose to be in my feelings or I choose to not argue. You have these choices all in life and set these boundaries, not not only with yourself but with your relationship, with which what will or will not be done or what you will not condone there's rules, for a reason, throughout life. Why do you think your relationship is any different? So just understand. We all have a choice life. Why do you think your relationship is any different? You know, you know. So just just understand. We all have a choice and please, not just women, but men just get out your feelings, because that's, you know, feelings versus reality is, is is two different things. You know we, we, we act so much on our feelings that we choose not to act logical and then wonder why people looking at us like we crazy. That's for men too, not just women, just men too.
Speaker 4:For the men again Do a better job of getting to know yourself, understanding yourself, being able to explain yourself. That way again, no one's telling you what to think, how to feel. You already know. You've done the homework. It's hard to regulate the world around you when you yourself are still trying to figure out everything. So my parting words men, do the work.
Speaker 1:I'll just say just take a moment and pause. That one second could be two seconds. We can't get into. Let our feelings dictate our actions, because feelings are like the wind it will blow whichever which way it will, but there's no. As Danny said, find somebody, find a professional, not just anybody. Find a professional to help you process your feelings, so that you're not relying upon them. As Keith said, do the work. Do the work. Nothing worth having isn't worth working for.
Speaker 1:And Steve said choose violence, but measured violence. I'll say measured violence, and the reason why I say that is like I said time for everything. But you know we have to be stern. You know and fight Sometimes you got to fight for it.
Speaker 1:You know, fight for peace, not fight peace, but fight for it. This has been Iron Table. Iron sharpens iron, so should men sharpen men. Thank my brothers again for taking the time out of their busy schedule, and I wish that they have a prosperous, blessed life until the next time we meet. All right, fellas, peace. Well, it's closing time. We are glad you stayed with us this long. The bill oh, we tore that up, for truth and accountability are free. You want to leave a tip? Sure, we'd take your money. But what's even better is if you share this with someone you know, for there's always room for more at the Iron Table. Thank you.
