The Iron Table
The Iron Table
She's Independent and.... ALONE? Are Men Really Afraid of an Independent Woman?
Have you ever wondered what triggers instant anger among Black people and why respect holds such immense value? Join us at the Iron Table as we kick things off with a hilarious story about the strategic move of buying a 50-piece nugget meal and the immediate form of betrayal from a child: tattling. As unpredictable as Michigan weather, our conversation shifts to deeper territories, diving headfirst into the cultural nuances of respect. From the high regard for respect in Japan to the often unconscious disrespect in America, we unpack these contrasting perspectives with humor, honesty, and accountability.
Respect and hypocrisy take center stage as we examine societal norms and personal boundaries among Black men, touching on historical civil rights movements and the personal limits of non-violent resistance. Ever wondered about the serious nature of actions like spitting or the financial entanglements that come with lending money? We tackle these topics head-on, reflecting on the balance of courtesy and the repercussions of perceived disrespect. The conversation continues with an insightful look into gender roles and relationships, shedding light on the impact of incarcerated fathers on their daughters and the dual parental roles mothers often assume.
Independence and interdependence within relationships are dissected through personal anecdotes and societal observations. From the complexities of maintaining individuality in a partnership to the societal pressures that shape our views on marriage and divorce, we leave no stone unturned. The importance of mutual respect, the consequences of hurtful words, and the evolution of gender roles are explored in depth, emphasizing the need for communication and understanding in fostering healthy relationships. Join us for a thought-provoking journey that balances humor and honesty, offering a fresh perspective on life's various facets.
Welcome to the iron table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. I am your host, bryant Goddine, and I'm joined by my brothers, keith, danny and Steve. We're your waiters, serving you accountability and truth. We now bring you to our program already in progress. Good morning, good morning. Welcome to the Iron Table, where iron sharpens iron. So should men sharpen men. Little housekeeping items. We don't own the rights to anything. We're tired of being shut off from countries that need to hear us. So I've got to make sure I post this message and also say that we don't own the rights, but we appreciate the musical art history from those who we do use. So thank you, art history from those who we do use. So thank you. Uh. And when we, whenever we get some uh, what is it? Uh, some sponsorship, maybe we might uh return some money, maybe, maybe. But welcome to the iron table. Um, of course I'm Brian, I've got my brothers, keith, danny and Steve, and we're hoping to bring you a little bit of truth, a little bit of humor, but always accountability Fellows. We've got to speed through this. So just a couple of words on how it's been, how you've been, since the last time we've spoken. Just try to keep it under 12 minutes if you can. Yeah, life is always an adventure. Some of us get to experience that adventure on the other side of the world. Today I'm grateful for the opportunities to get to the table. Man school is back in session. Getting ready today. Gonna be getting ready for the week. All right, thanks, I've been going decent, uh, it's been going good. Uh, I'm uh. You know this michigan. This michigan weather has been, uh, been up and down. This Michigan weather one day it's sunny, then the next day it's raining. That's Michigan. That's why I don't live there, just for me.
Speaker 1:I shared this with Keith. I tell you guys, apparently being a dad, and that our kids will snitch on us. Yeah, earlier this week or last week, it was time for us to eat and I told my son I was like well, why don't we just get a 50 piece nugget from, from Wendy's? You know it's only like fourteen, ninety nine. And he was like Dad, I don't need 50 pieces, I just want eight. And I was like but I got to eat too, and we also got to think about what you're going to eat tomorrow. You know, 50 pieces, that's enough for two, two, three meals, depending on how you break it up and I'm married, so I got some for the missus.
Speaker 1:Well, as soon as I got in the house, this little clone made a beeline to his mother and was like mom, dad got 50 nuggets. And the next thing I hear is what, why did he get 50 nuggets? I'm having to explain. I said it's. You know, we're talking about cost savings here. 50 nuggets, 14.99. If I got him a 10 piece and mea hamburger we're paying like 28. I was like, nah, this, you know 50 piece and just get two medium fries and be good.
Speaker 1:Now, of course, as she was saying that, she snuck a nugget, you know she was going out and then the next morning she's like man, what I'm gonna eat for lunch? I was like, well, I got some nuggets. I said I believe I have, uh, 37 nuggets left. I said, sure, there's enough. Yeah, my nuggets are numbered. But she took some.
Speaker 1:But I learned that my son does not understand. You know, he has to grow into man provisional logic. So that's that's what happened to me. So he's not ready to not snitch yet. No, he is not ready because he ran straight in. Keeps on the phone, mama daddy bought 50 nuggets. She trying to understand, like why you buy so many. This is why so. So I learned that.
Speaker 1:I learned that, um, okay, so real quick question to kind of get us, uh, lubed up. That's the wrong term. Get us ready to talk. It's all right, see, I'm sorry, steve, I said wrong words. Um, it's early, I'm tired.
Speaker 1:Uh, what is something that black people can't stand and instantly sparks anger? The reason this question came up is because my wife's best male friend, keith because they have this little greeting, hey, keith, hey, they were talking about she's a teacher and she works with kids with autism, and so one of the things she's dealt with kids that are headbangers, that are biters, scratchers. But she said one thing she cannot handle is a kid that spits, and if she got spit on she's, she has told me before that we she may have to, you know, find another job, amen. So I. It made me think. You know what is that one thing? Um, that we as a people, or you just even, maybe not we as a people for you, that is like non-negotiable, that if it happens, that's it. All bets are off. There's, you know, you off. We're not our calm, reserved selves. We go from zero to 100. So what is that In America the perception of disrespect is what would prompt a lot of anger.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it results in a minor skirmish Ultimately. Sometimes it results in the the the unlifing others and um. But this idea of of respect it goes back to, you know, back in the day, when you know you bet you won't knock this off my shoulder. It's just like whatever I got and something that won't say you know that the idea that somebody would come and knock it off his shoulder, it was a show of disrespect. It was me saying to somebody you ain't this is what. I think it's probably such a big deal because for many of us we haven't necessarily felt as if we had respect. So we fight for that in ways that might not be productive, might restrict our freedom later in life. But I would argue for the Black woman as well that she doesn't like beers. It's a human thing, but in America I think it's even more as a people.
Speaker 1:The concept, the notion of respect oftentimes sparks a lot of strong emotion. That's my thought. I would definitely have to agree, not even just for, like I said, people, but just even for me as myself. One of the reasons why I love Japan so much was I saw the respect that people had there for not only each other but just for everybody there period, and then to instantly come back and get disrespected or just you know, and feel like it's weird. In America People are so disrespectful that they don't even know that they're being disrespectful. It's just commonplace now, you know.
Speaker 1:So I would just say, even for me, the notion of respect, being kind and courteous and doing those particular things that take no effort whatsoever, and understanding that it takes more effort, it takes more energy to be disrespectful, yeah, that kind of sends me to another place. That's why sometimes I kind of didn't tend to stay to myself, because everybody, really a lot of times people, especially America, especially sometimes with our folk too we want to show off, we want to show that I can do this. I'm dad, I'm the biggest, I'm the baddest X, y and Z I ain't got time for that. I ain't got time for that. Respect, I definitely agree with you, daddy. Respect.
Speaker 1:Now, I agree what both of you just said, but I'm going to shift lanes just a little bit, because the root of it is the respect versus disrespect, but for me it's hypocrisy, because you asked me what I hate and I hate personally hypocrisy, but amongst, amongst black men, because that's what we do this for or just men. I hate hypocrisy. I hate the fact that when you get around certain people, you all of a sudden have respect, but when you come around your own and this applies to us sometimes as a culture we've seen this even in relationships where I know husbands were like well, she can go to work, and if her boss tells her to come in early and stay late, she do that, but I ask her to do one thing. And so, again, when someone shows that they're capable of doing it for someone else and not doing it for our own selves or for the sake of us, I think I hate that. Or for the sake of us, I think I hate that. Like I, I, everything else you said was spot on because we, there is a thing where we, as a community or for whatever reason, there are some of us who, for all kinds of reasons, just don't have it internally and we're missing the esteem, we're missing the value, we're missing the worth. So we, we have to overcompensate, so it leads to a form of disrespect.
Speaker 1:But going back to what you said originally, the spitting, yes, listen, she's spot on. If you ever heard. I'm in jail. I'm surprised that you are free. I'm grateful, surprised that you are free. Yes, sir, I'm grateful, grateful, holly, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, that's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 1:So if even as far as work, I used to brag about it, I've never had. I worked in the prisons. I worked with all kinds of juvenile. I've worked in some tough settings and I learned not to brag about it, even the spitting. I take that back one time and it's funny, there's so many good kids that it's hard for me to draw their names. But I remember Kevin. I remember Kevin because Kevin tried to spit in my face and for a minute I forgot I was there For a minute and for a minute I forgot I was there One minute. And he's seven. Fortunately, if he was older and he could have mustered up enough force behind that, it would have connected.
Speaker 1:And hey, the reason why spitting on somebody is a soft and you get a charge, it is a reason. So, just as if you hit me in my face With your hand, you spit on me, you're gonna May as well. Same consequence. Yeah, I mean, for me it's more of like money. You mess With my money, not cool. You know it's it about. You know the ability to pay back. You know I try to make sure that if I lend, I lend what I don't expect in return. To make that request as if I am your benefactor. It's my job to supplement your income. Then I've got problems.
Speaker 1:Interesting enough, you know you talked about spitting and I think about and Keith and I have had this conversation like would you have been able to be during the civil rights movement, be sitting on a counter while someone is pouring, you know, hot coffee condiments, yelling all in your ear um, could, could you do that? Could you do that part of civil rights? Or are you making buttons in the back and sending out? Do they have to keep you off the front lines or do you just say, hey, yeah, you know, martin, you're cool, but I'm, I'm with Malcolm Huey and you know what, what your triggers are, what, what you can and can't handle.
Speaker 1:You know, I think I could sit at the counter. That hot coffee would be hot, it would be hot. But I think, because of the training, you know, because they had to train those people, they had to sit them down and you know it was like whatever you do, do not hit back. I wonder if they had, like somebody who trained and you know, oh yeah, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it. Someone says, hey, how you doing. If someone says, hey, how you doing, right, like he just said, hi again, it's one thing to yell, get in my face and yell the n-word and and scream and holler and make threats. But once you touch me or once the dogs are let loose or the fire hoses come out, that's a different breed. Back then my head's forever. I no, not me, like you said, I want to remember the agenda is for all of us to get there.
Speaker 1:You're saying that you, you don't have, you can't hold it in for for 15 minutes anything. Stick your hand in, you can't hold it in for 15 minutes. You ever had hot anything? Stick your hand in hot water. It's a reaction. It's like when your hand touches the stove you're not just going to sit there. Oh, this is really, really hot. It's going to be a knee-jerk reaction. It takes a special breed.
Speaker 1:They were definitely followers of Yeshua Jesus, the Christ, the Son of the Living God, because he never said a mumbling word. But anytime somebody said something to me, I can do the words, but when you talk about something scalding hot and not a knee-jerk reaction, that takes a very special human being in the same way. Like spitting, like you're talking about, like like I, I applaud anyone who's ever been spat on and didn't respond. Someone taps you on the shoulder like all right, mr j, mr Jones, I always like to pick on Deacon. We see you about to just go to the back, just dry off. I'm going to go and sit in and finish the rest of your time. I'm going to the trunk, I'm coming back. Peaceful demonstration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a picture splitting on people too, and that's okay. Yeah, you know it is. I mean, what if they won't give you money at the end? Like, hey, if y'all don't do anything, we got some money for you then, just because you had the. I think that it's kind of a weird question to be able to ask, because certain things were just so commonplace back then. That again, yeah, it definitely was a different breed of people.
Speaker 1:You know the old conversation of if I was a slave, I would have didn't know. If he was a slave, he would have just got beat. Everybody wasn't. Everybody wasn't a Harriet Thompson at all. If you was a slave, you would have got beat or killed. You know what I mean? Because that was just that, was just society. That's just how things were. Not to say that it was right or anything like that, but it's just the makeup of how we are now as today, as black people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not going for that at all because that's not anything that we are used to, that's not commonplace and sometimes, I never forget, as kids we always say well, teacher, do this, did the teacher do that in high school, did the teacher do this? They put my hands on me, they put their hands on me, I'm tearing up. I remember in high school a teacher got sick of this one boy and started choking. He started actually choking. He went to school this Catholic school, for free for the rest of those years, but that boy didn't get up and start wailing on the teacher at all. He was so shocked. He was so shocked and it was outside the norm that all that toughness, all that I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that went completely out the window.
Speaker 1:When we're talking about trauma, it's either fight or flight. You know what I mean. A lot of times we're so used to things, everything is so nice for us or whatnot. Most times it's flight instead of. You know what I mean, unless you've been in certain situations like that before you know.
Speaker 1:But again, that whole moniker of if I was a slave, I would have did this no, you would have sat there and got what everybody else got, or you'd have been dead Pretty much. Yeah. We like to assume that our keyboard warrior courage would be synonymous with like something. No, you'd have been picking cotton. It's a different villain. You'd have a dog sick on you, or even in the Civil Rights Movement, having a dog sick on you. Man, everybody also thinks too. You don't like a red dog, but a dog bite me. I'm going to do this. Dogs are different, yeah. So imagine a big German shepherd real, you know, and it's strong.
Speaker 1:So you know we're talking about trauma on top of trauma and figuring out how you're gonna react to it and whatnot. I'm not gonna say what I would've done, but I just thank God I wasn't around that time to experience it. Yeah, that's not what I would have done, but I just thank God I wasn't around that time to experience it. Yeah, that's not. I wonder, would I hit the dog back with a bat or something? My non-peaceful protesting sign. It's almost better to hit a person than the dog, but now, yeah, we're not advocating any type of animal abuse. I'm not going to say that. Did you see what that savage did to that poor German Shepherd? German Shepherd had all his sharp shoulders. He still got the meat in his mouth. Did you see what he did to that poor dog?
Speaker 1:Well, now that we're a little warmed up, this is the real question for today. I'm trying to sit and look at it. You're really going to leave us with almost 20 minutes for this question. Seriously, I mean, no, we can keep going. You know, only one of us has to step off and I would say let him speak first. This can be a part two. So, okay, let me tell you where this question came from.
Speaker 1:Um, there is a netflix special about um dc dads and their daughters. These dads are in jail and it's where the daughters um, and in this jail they really don't get an opportunity to have any type of physical interaction and sometimes they don't even get to see them in the same room. They're on like a teleprompter or something like or a television. So this was an opportunity because they said a lot of daughters who don't have their dads in their lives. You know it perpetuates, you know, a lot of hurt women, which we know to be. You know, sometimes that is the case. Well, and these dads don't have a relationship. They've never gotten to touch bond or anything because they've been in jail or have been, you know, longer than what the daughter is, the age of the daughter. So one of the dads said that when he tries to contact his daughter, the mother no, it was not the dad.
Speaker 1:One of the moms was like in a small little group, was like well, I'm the mother, I'm the father, I'm, you know, I'm all this child has and needs. And it had me think, like you know what to hear that to pass that on to a child you know of female, to just say that I am your mother, I am your father. Now understand the circumstances. You know says I am the only parent that you can rely on outside. But to negate, you know, the position of a man or of a dad builds that independent Cause. Your lady was like I can do it all myself, I got a place, I got this and that. And I'm like well, you know, I'm cool, I'm happy You're able to provide for yourself, for your family.
Speaker 1:But then I think about hearing, you know, a lot of women say well, no man wants to be with an independent, successful woman. I'm like that ain't true, you know. You know it ain't the fact that you're independent that turns a man off. You know, it might be the fact that you're boasting about it, that you're constantly reminding men and then maybe they just like well, if you keep saying all this and you know you really don't need me. So you know, you know, and that's my fault, but you know from from your lenses, from your experience, from just you know your background, you know, are men really afraid of the independent woman?
Speaker 1:I must say that, um, I don't think that men, I don't think the word afraid would be the right terminology. I think when you start talking about men and women, you have preference. Men have options. Men are the custodians of relationship. Men are the custodians of relationship. If there's a relationship, it's because a man has decided I want to be in relationship with you. For the most part, we are the ones who determine, if there's going to be a relationship, the extent of that relationship, and so I wouldn't say that men are afraid of an independent woman, and so I wouldn't say that men are afraid of an independent woman. I would definitely say that there is a.
Speaker 1:There are many men who would prefer someone who is not as vocal about their independence. I don't need no man, I don't need you. It's my money, my house, my house. I'll just say that there are many men who would much prefer not to hear that and would choose to be in relationship with someone who does not have that tone, that disposition towards him, especially if he's striving to be a protector and provider, a house band. You know that leader of his home, you know that leader of his home is. How can you lead if somebody is challenging your authority every minute? And I don't mean authority in a base like bureaucratic sense, but Tell me your position. Come on, talk to me, steve, talk to me. I think that it's we definitely not. I wouldn't say afraid, and I would, I would dare. At first, when I was hearing you talk, I was saying maybe intimidated, but I wouldn't even say that.
Speaker 1:It goes back to what we talk about before. It's respect, if we are coming together as a union, as a partnership, as partners on this team, and you're telling me that you don't really need me, that you can do all of this by yourself, go for it. Go for it. And I wouldn't say that again. It's about you respecting me at this point, because you don't respect my position as a team, as a partner in this team, and at a certain point in time we have to be able to say hey, how much do we respect each other as teammates? And it's something about our community, where we are in the black community, where it's like we're trying to one up each other as male and female. It's like that's not what it's supposed to be. If you lose, I lose, lose, I lose. If I lose, you lose.
Speaker 1:And it sucks that it takes some Black women to get to their 40s and 50s to understand and realize that. And at that time the date pool for your age is small, very small. So now we're thinking like I can't find a man. Yeah, you can't find a man because all the other men that came before you you didn't respect his position and you didn't respect your position as well. So now here we are thinking about you can't find a man. Now, when you say position when you say position because I know we have both male and female listeners can you explain what you mean by position, because some will hear that word and shut down everything else that you said, because position could look like you are like being a male chauvinist, like you're saying, no, your space is in this place.
Speaker 1:So when I say position, I always tell my couples, when we get together, we're learning about each other and we're talking about, hey, what does it mean to be a wife? What does it mean to be a husband? All these particular things, what is your notion of what does it mean to be a wife? What is your notion of what does it mean to be a husband? What is your expectations? Oh, and, they vary and they differ from person to person. But knowing your partner and understand, hey, me as a husband, this is what I think that I should be doing in this relationship. Ok, me as the wife, this is what I think the husband should do. And then, vice versa, as a husband, this is what I think the wife should be doing. As a wife, this is what I think the wife should be doing, and coming to understanding that in our relationship.
Speaker 1:These are the positions that we're going to be playing, such as hey, I'm the protector, I'm the provider, I'm the backer of the finances, I'm the one that keeps the finances, I'm the one that rears the children, and so forth, and so on. Maybe you're in the position of I'm the one to take out the trash, understanding your position in your soul, relationship and that difference. Some men are the ones that do take care of the children and some men are not. It varies, but being able to come together and say, hey, this is what I think my position as a wife, or this is what I think my position as a husband, or this is what I think that a wife should do or a husband should do, you got to have that conversation to understand what those positions even look like. And then, when we establish that, respect that position, don't say I don't need you for this. Yes, you do.
Speaker 1:God created man and woman to be together, not by yourself, because if he, if that was the case, wouldn't need each other to complement each other, the case wouldn't need each other to compliment each other, you know. So, a lot of times we, we forget, or a lot of times people say god, please send me a man. Yeah, I did send you a man, and another and another, but you let your ego, you let your arrogance, you let society get in the way of you firing that man. Now you're lonely, lonely. Sometimes you get lonely. All right, deacon, you've been marinating over there. Give us a word, give us a word.
Speaker 1:The phrase I don't need you is being reproduced more and more in our modern society. Because we do find, in our culture right now, a lot of women, black women especially, are landing wonderful jobs. It's a beautiful thing and it shouldn't be competition, that's just it. It should be partnership, cooperation. But unfortunately, from what I have seen and what people have shared with me, the understanding of what that means and for a lot of women, even the ones that are not even married yet, the ones that are dating, it interprets to them meaning more money that are not even married yet, the ones that are dating, it interprets to them meaning more money, more power. I'll just call it what some woman basically phrased it. As you know, I you know because I'm bringing. You know cause we ask women what are you bringing to the table? And typically you know they talk about the domestic things. But some women talk about you know their, their, their success, their earnings, their degrees.
Speaker 1:Now, it's true what someone else kind of highlighted as men we don't have typically men don't look for access to their funds, even women. They'll say his money is my money and my money is my money, and that's actually how a lot of people flow. It's not a collaborative experience, because I've seen it where, even though they're successful, these women a lot of these women are successful have stashes. They've been able to save up a lot of money. If he came to her and said, hey, I need to get tires, or you know, I just paid all these expenses, I'm running a little short, I'll give it back to you. I've seen some turn their note like you, asking me for money, like be utterly offended.
Speaker 1:Whereas if the roles were reversed, you're the provider, you're the man of the house, you're supposed to take care of these things. But then what happens to Miss Independence? If you're so strong and independent, cause this, how this, how this independence functions for us. We got to, we end up doing more and compensating more because but it's not necessarily because we're independent, because it's our role. But what I guess, what I'm trying to say is what oftentimes they don't understand is, when you want to step into this lane, there are other expectations and responsibilities that come with that, and a lot of times that's why it doesn't work.
Speaker 1:You can't go into this trying to act like a man. I didn't sign up to be married to a man, a masculine like, like, so it's just like a man, right. I got in this to be partnered up with my wife or with my girlfriend or with my significant other. So when you tell me that you don't need me and you create an energy that says that For most of us men we're going to take that, it's not going to fit, because this is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for partnership, I'm looking for connectivity, I'm looking for collaboration. Help me, like I'm helping you. Support me, my goals, my dreams, my aspirations, just like I support you. So yeah, like I said, I hate hypocrisy. We're taking it even a step further with this man. I know people go.
Speaker 1:So here you go with the spiritual stuff again. But hey, it's a part of our life and this is what it is. We're thinking about even the spiritual sense of how things are, what's going on in society. And we look at our music or whatnot. I mean, you know you got songs such as you know single ladies or whatnot. Or you know Beyonce, whether it be Whitney Houston, I'm Every Woman, or whatever it may be that glorifies this whole independent woman field.
Speaker 1:At a certain point in time, reality should be setting in. It's like, hey, you know these particular people that sing these particular songs. Either one, they got the money to back up anything they talk about, or they can buy a whole country if they want to. Or two, hell, they got a man, you know that's just singing a song at this point in time, not to make money. And if you keep on thinking that these particular songs that you revere and that you're repeating over and over again, that you really like, if you feel like that's your lifestyle, you're in for a rude awakening. Because it's not. It's like almost the wannabe thug reciting all these rap lyrics and then he get out there in the streets. It's not you. You're not about that life. A lot of women are not about that life of being independent. Nor should they be. It shouldn't be like that at all. You're supposed to have a partner in this game called life. So, again, being able to. We always talk about watching what you eat. You need to watch what you listen to, because that gets into your soul, and when you manifest it and you get to understand, hey, this ain't what it's supposed to be and a certain point in time is too late. This ain't what it's supposed to be. At a certain point in time it's too late.
Speaker 1:I just want to jump in and point out the difference between independence and individuality, because they're two. Totally there is a difference. What I'm saying is that anyone who is going about building an independent life I don't need you, I got this by myself they're going against the divine order number one, because it is not good that man should be alone. It's a principle that transcends even marriage. But that doesn't mean that we lose that individuality and the ability to have that agency where we're making decisions. That's even more foundational to me to the order. We should retain individuality while understanding that interdependence is of greater value than independence, because we're not saying that men can do it without. No, that's.
Speaker 1:That's also a misnomer, like the whole idea of a help me makes it clear that there's some help that's needed to be able to fulfill responsibility. And so what men are looking for innately I would even say divinely is a partnership. And that partnership are you really going to get it with somebody who's I don't need? I don't. No, a lot of women ask me the question how he ended up getting with that ugly broke, unattractive helpmate partnership when I got all of this over here. He didn't want that. He chose the person who was going to help him, who was going to listen to him, who was going to support him Most men don't care about.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day it's nice to look at. Is it even that it gets old, bro? Oh bro, I mean, that's early on in life. Very superficial is old, but that's early on in life. As we're older, we look at it differently. To be in a relationship with a partnership with it, it's nothing like it, it's physical, it looks nice. That's why they had to turn trophy wife.
Speaker 1:A lot of men they'll go get the trophy wife. They'll get the trophy wife, but they'll have the real partner or they'll go and have an actual relationship with somebody else that is to help me. Yeah, as Proverbs says, it's like a gold ring in a pig's nose. Oh, it's a gold ring, it's in a pig's nose. It's a gold ring, it's in a pig's nose. So you know what?
Speaker 1:I'll tell you what we as men, we as men, you know, we kind of I don't want to say picking on the women, but again, we as men sometimes where we get it wrong too in these relationships, that we go into this relationship and then, instead of it being a partnership, we make it a dictatorship. Absolutely, we as men have to be very conscious of not only our role as the head of the household but also understanding that, again, this is a partnership and it should not be a dictatorship. Let me ask a dictatorship? Most of us either didn't have it or that's what we saw. Oh. But let me ask you this Okay, can a man trying to prove himself, saying that I can take care of, I can provide, can that cross over into dictatorship? Because he's saying, hey, I've done all this stuff, I've provided, I've trusted you should trust and follow me because I've met your basic needs. Now, I'm not trying to say I'm not for dictatorship in that decision. Again, how much say Women have?
Speaker 1:They have, I would almost say 51%, say Influence. I would say strong, very strong influence. But at the end of the day, the decision is still the man, but the influence on that decision is, you know, a woman has influential powers. Like we'll say, yeah, we made that decision, but we made it under the advisement of our partner. My wife likes flowers and again, just understand, in knowing that, in knowing that, as a man, you should know, you know what I mean Like, hey, yeah, I made the decision, but she did it. Flowers would never be a part of my budget, but my wife likes them, so I don't see the same thing. But the influence, yeah, I think that, when it comes to independence and even, like Steve just pointed out, like that Control power, I think that one extreme creates the opposite extreme, and even, like Steve just pointed out, like that control power, I think that one extreme creates the opposite extreme. They do, they can, and both are going to result in a dysfunctional relationship, and so what we need to do is to understand that that ain't the way, neither is this the way. We've got to get to the point where we're able to understand the principles and integrate them so that we can be in healthy relationship, and that we're not.
Speaker 1:Even the word in 2 Corinthians 1 Corinthians is talking about the hand can't say to the foot I don't need you, I don't need you. So why would any person, especially if you're coming from a faith-based background, ever say to another human being I don't need you, because they've been emotionally hurt and they want that person to feel that hurt. And the only way that men will really feel hurt is through words is, you know, that's what I don't think they understand the words that they use, because these words are more detrimental to us than actually the physical like. Because physically, most women can't, they're not strong enough, their upper bodies are built different. That's not a play date. But their words and they know this, their words cut deeper and harder than anything that we, because we. So when you keep hearing I don't need you, I don't need you, for most people it I know a lot of men interpret that what she named me for, what she named me for and again, oh, but man. But I've discovered, though, keith, I've discovered, yes, this.
Speaker 1:They can hurt us with those words, but it backfires because I don't need you, I don't need you. We feel that we hurt. That's what I'm saying. It may take some years, but we move on. We shut down the phone and we find somebody that needs us, and that other person sees that, oh damn, they got somebody that needs us. And that other person sees that, oh damn, they got somebody that needs them. And then they feel a certain way about them. So those words backfire.
Speaker 1:If I could just say it, because I got to run at the top of the hour, because I have another commitment that I have. But I just want to point out the fact that it's hurting them, because Black women are one of the. They're the demographic that is least likely to be married and most of them long for something that they're disqualifying themselves for Not all of them, but many of them. By having this disposition, they're repelling the very thing that they're saying that they want more than anything else, because the nature of a man is to lead, it's to have a partnership with someone who will help him accomplish his work in this world. So that's where I kind of rest my hat, but it's always a pleasure to be at the table. I got to run. All right, man, take your folding chair. Nah, it's a real chair. All right, bro man, thanks for stopping through.
Speaker 1:So let me ask you this, and I thinking about you know, when we say the word independent and you know daniel mentioned individuality, if I was writing a song, the word independent sounds a lot better than individuality is it possible that, um, women really mean individuality, and not that I don't need you, but that I am who I am and I don't lose myself because I'm with you. I think that's everybody that's in relationships. Period Two become one, but it's important to keep certain things that make you you, because that's what attracted you to the other person. You don't want to lose certain things in you yourself. I love my independent wife and then too, there are a lot of because of the numbers, there's just a lot of women who will never marry, unfortunately. Some of them don't want to. Some of them are happily being single, independent, and I don't think it's a bad thing that they celebrate the reality of their lives. It's not a bad thing, it's when it's recognized, it's when it's because I'm single and I like being single. When it comes across as I hate you because I'm single, I only need you for one thing now. I only need you for one thing now. Just like we shouldn't do the same thing to them Again. There are a lot of guys who are choosing to be single and they enjoy it. I don't think if they came out with a song all the single men, I don't think that's a terrible thing, unless it's weaponized to, to degrade those or to minimize those who choose something different.
Speaker 1:Well, there was that song. I don't want no scrubs. No, that was the no, no, it's tlc, saying she ain't want scrubby men. But then there was a comeback song. That was the no, it's TLC, saying she ain't want scrubby men. But then there was a comeback song that was like I don't want no, what is it? Was it Chicken Heads? It was some group that I can't remember, but there was a comeback song there was.
Speaker 1:But why are we the only race that got to pronounce that? That's like a given no duh. No, nobody want no scrub but no duh duh. No, nobody want no scrub but no, duh, don't. Nobody want no chicken head either.
Speaker 1:Why are we the only ones that have to pronounce all of this to the worm? We will never have a conversation without us doing something the rest of the world does not do. We should have a special segment. What do we do that the rest of the world will not do? And then why do we do it? We know why because we have spent more time away from the royalty, the respect, everything that came from the motherland, and we have been put in places where there's scarcity of resources, scarcity of education, and it has been so deep that even now, while we can say America is one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest country in the world, that there's still the desire to Desire to, to be better is not there, because we've spent so much time in in low poverty, ish situations that that, that innate desire that's in us to say I want to be better, I want to do better, I want to get my family out, I want to do generational wealth. To do generational wealth, I want to make the sacrifice. All that is gone because everything else has been handed to you like well, why try if I'm getting this and I'm okay, right, and so you know?
Speaker 1:Now, no, I, as I go back, I I enjoy, I love my independent life. I love someone that doesn't need me for everything. You know there's a lot of things that someone that doesn't need me for everything you know there's a lot of things that I know she'll need me for. It gives me time to, to what is it to, to recover from. You know the need in the same thing. I need some stuff from her and when I don't, it gives her an opportunity to recover, to rest, to build up energy and we're able to move together because we understand the positions, using our words, the positions that we need and I'm sure that takes a lot of communication. Yeah, it takes a lot of communication and a lot of organic situations. And I mean organic, I mean you got to have the highs, you got to have the lows in order to understand. All right, this is how this person, or how I'll move in this situation, how she moves in this situation and sometimes I may not move well and I've got to allow her influence to get us through you know a situation and vice versa.
Speaker 1:If I may go back, what is the need for anyone to continue to repeat that freight? What do you think is the need or what causes a person to have to constantly say, remind you of how much they make and that they, you know that they're independent and that they don't need you like what is? Where does that stem from? What do you? What do you think the the origin of that comes from hurt?
Speaker 1:I think, um, from a lot for those women in the past. When you know that song papa was a rolling stone, you know how much we liked that. You know because, because of that, and they would leave them. I mean, just straight, leave and maybe go down the street. You know 10 houses down, but they would leave them where they had nothing, and so at that point I understood that women were taking care of the home, and so they were living off of the you know the monies that the father was bringing in, and of course, the wife was able to multiply it with her, her abilities.
Speaker 1:But you take away that financial piece, that security piece, that safety piece, and so it it planted a seed of of resentment towards that one man, and that story was passed down like you need to be in a position where, if he were to leave, you need to be okay. So that's where that stash comes from, that's where you know that that cadre of cash that we don't know about, or we don't, we say we don't know about, but we probably know it's there, because if a lot of Black women have experienced, at least someone has a story in their family where a man has left his family and left them to fend for themselves, and so she said, hey, you need to be prepared. And if any man decides to do that, or even gives a hint and it could be that it is not even anywhere near that hint and like go to what is the core of every man to be able to provide, protect and support. And if you call him out on that and you tell him I don't need you for that, while you're saying, hey, I've got the ability to, you might be saying I got the ability to carry us if it was said in a nice way, but in the weaponized way it is. You continue to act this way and maybe they're trying to change behavior. You know what do I say? Threats never move a man. The threats, they don't move us. There's other ways to get us to act. I hate to even bring this up, but that's what happens. I normally try not to be on.
Speaker 1:Uh, but Judge Mathis, apparently I guess his wife filed for divorce oh, wait, right, because nobody saw that coming after 39 years and like but here's the thing, uh, uh, no, no, we're not gonna say that, because here's the thing we're gonna talk about how we, we ain't got to deal with all of this stuff. As far as I got to tell you I'm an independent woman, I got to think about you being a rolling star. All this stuff, all the red flags are there day one through day 30., 30th, and we are sitting down and having sex with these people that we don't even know, creating new babies, getting married to people that we don't know, and then wondering, oh, how did this happen? And all the red flags are there, from day one to day 30. You can see it all, but we choose to stay in the thick of all of this and all of a sudden now you're wondering why this married the man that was married to somebody else when you met him and was sleeping around with you after he left his wife to be with you, is now still sleeping around with other people. When you met him, he was doing that. You think you're the Messiah that he just going to change for you.
Speaker 1:But let me ask you this and, and thinking about that, that someone's leaving someone else, remember? I mean, can we tie that to slavery, where people were being traded? I don't think this has anything to do with slavery. I think it's our. It's because this was around before infidelity, divorce, all this was around before, before. It's even in the Bible, where they had Moses had to make rules to this thing because y'all just divorce and willy nilly. We need a divorce contract because people fighting over women no, that's my wife, no, that's my no. We need a whole system set up now that, when you guys decide not to be together. We know what to do, because Jesus said God never wanted this, but because Moses I mean because of sin, moses had to do something. So, um. So here we are, but what I was saying after 39 years she filed for divorce.
Speaker 1:Then I see this, it was quiet. He was quiet, which I get. I understood. He came back to somebody finally I think it was TMZ finally and actually interviewed him and he was talking about how, you know, he admits, you know he was, he was neglectful, he was not taking care of what he needed to do and he had been absent over the last, I think he said, you know, just over whatever time, but he, he gave some understanding of his, of how he he feels or what he believes led up to here. Now, whether it's the truth, I don't really care about none of that. I'm sure, before they got here, she warned him several times that we need to fix this or we need to change this. And this is where the dictator in us comes out. I'm making the money, I'm doing this, I'm not changing nothing. So her action that's why I said the threats probably didn't do a thing. It was her action of filing, and now that this has gone public and now that there's some heat he talked about, he said it in the interview I need to go fix my marriage. I'm trying to fix my marriage. I'm trying to make because, again, not, not, not even that hot, not at all. So I was going on for years.
Speaker 1:We don't always. I would love to say that we was, we was respond to cues and threats. I would love to say that we would respond to cues and threats. I would love to say it. But time and time again and some people do I will say sometimes it's not even about a man thing. There are some people that say, if you don't fix this, this is what's going to happen, and they say, okay, let's work on it.
Speaker 1:But I know for most of us men, even when it comes to our physical health, it got to fall off for us to go in. Men, even when it comes to our physical health, it got to fall off for us to go in. It'll be burning, it'll be aching, it'll be hurting, broken, crooked. I walk it off. It takes falling off to be like, yeah, I need to go do something about this. Why are we like this? We have something in us where and I believe you talked about this even talking about, even thinking about even my marriage and the demise of that and the divorce. I should have been divorced a long time ago.
Speaker 1:But that whole thought of, oh, I'm a failure if I get a divorce or I'm now a statistic, these delusions in our head of that, of these particular things that may be going on at that date or might go on if we get a divorce, that keeps us in the midst of all of that drama and all of that mess, when God himself is telling you, hey, you need to get out of this. So, first and foremost, maybe God didn't even ordain this, but you're staying in it for the fact of, oh, I got to prove family members wrong. I mean, you know I got to. Of, oh, I got to prove family members wrong. I mean, you know, I got to prove myself right. I prove society wrong. I got to not be a statistic. I got to all these things and to ultimately still do it but have gone through so much mess and so much drama that you could have saved yourself that, that, that that mess and that drama from the get go. You know, and I, I think we actively choose to stay in the midst of chaos sometimes. Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1:Is there ever a time that Because what I don't want people to do is assume that, because relationships get hard or difficult or challenging, that the answer is going to happen, right right. Is there ever a time that you go through hell and you fight to fix it because it's worth saving? You have to read Dante's Inferno, and what I mean by that is going back to what you said, because the main deal breaker for a lot of people, or most people, is infidelity. But I actually know a lot of couples only because of my job. I know a lot of people, or most people, is infidelity, but I actually know a lot of couples only because of my job. I know a lot of couples who have gone through that and they're still trucking. The whole world don't know their testimony. And that's the thing. Is that because it's not public? It's not public because you see all the, because if it's public, man, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden you get these words in it and the outside forces are what pushes it apart. Sometimes red flags are there in the beginning and we see them most times and we ignore them most times. But then sometimes people change after they get married, like again, when I got married I liked to work out. I ate healthy and now I got married I caught her. Now so I'm letting go, I ain't working out another day of my life, I'm not taking another bath, because the goal was, again I look good to catch. That was the bait to catch the girl. Now that I got the girl, I'm and I know some guys who again, they have admitted they even down to hygiene, just totally slacked off down the hygiene, just totally slacked off. But their wives, again, their wives have let them know, their wives have threatened to leave if you don't do something about it. But these change I bring these up to say these changes happen after. This wasn't the, this wasn't the person that they like, I call them, uh, the representative, this wasn't the representative representative gone. This is actually who he is, but he didn't. She didn't see this. So now what do? Does she divorce or does? Does she work with him while he tries to get himself together? This is what I believe.
Speaker 1:Long dating, short courtship oh yeah, if the brother is still married after five years of you dating this married man and he's still telling you he gonna get a divorce. It's your fault at this point. Everything else that happens after that is your fault. This is your fault. You got to explain that. You're saying if someone's I know what I'm saying. If the brother that you're dating is still married after five years of him telling you he's going to get a divorce, this is your fault at this point. And this is comedy for the rest of us, because this is dumb at this point and your expectations of him being he don't owe you anything. He's a husband to another wife to another woman. He doesn't owe you anything. I thought these two people were married and he's telling this person no, no, no, oh, you're saying that he's in another relationship. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1:Everybody looking at my face, like what we're talking about? Red flags and a lot of red flags that I see with people With a lot of you know, our women that they're dating men that are married and they're telling them I'm going to get a divorce, I'm going to get a divorce, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that. Five, six years pass and he and he's still telling you the same thing I gotta wait for the kids to get older. And even still, if he got the divorce. Are you trusting enough that you will not end up in the same predicament, but him having another person? Because how you found him is karma. Karma come right back around. Karma comes back around If you don't respect anything. Respect the sanctity of what, the notion of what marriage is, so that karma don't come back on your marriage or you just don't have to constantly live with with that. Because I've seen again, I've seen people in in sessions.
Speaker 1:Because of that, they, they, they know and they've talked about it openly I, I don't think he's gonna leave his wife. I was like you don't think like he's not leaving his wife. I was like, okay, because it's been four or five years, and every time he says it, every time you threaten to leave, and when you have cut him off, that's when all of a sudden he shows you attention again. But once he has you, he goes back to his family and keeps you on the shelf. So do real men operate on threats? Because you just said you know, hey, if she says I'm going to leave you and then all of a sudden he does right. So does a real man with morality does he operate on threats? He still can, he can, but I wish I, I I hope that we as men, overall, we get better, because, again, we all hate this and I don't even want to break up because I don't want to.
Speaker 1:Don't do this, women, but would it be like, honey, can you, uh, something simple, can you change the light bulb? And it's like, yeah, I get to it. And then when we see them go get the stepstool, it's like, man, move, get it. I move out the way I got it. We don't, we going to do it. Well, be specific, can you change it right now? Yeah, now we have a conversation and that will help With. Some guys will be like, nah, babe, I'm watching the game, I change it after the game and and so, yeah, that is true. Some women say, well, if you don't do it, I'm gonna just do it right now, myself and guys, some guys like, okay, okay, go ahead, and then.
Speaker 1:But the, the, the action of her doing it normally irks our souls enough that sometimes we intervene and that could be good and bad, because sometimes that could be used. It's going to be a consequence. It's going to be a consequence For her having to do it. Right, you're going to hear about it, you're going to hear about it, motivation. So I'll do it now, just so it's motivation, I'll just do it. So I got to hear your mouth, my mouth.
Speaker 1:So let me let me ask this, because we were talking about independent women who created the independent woman? Was it the woman herself or was it the man, her circumstances? Because I don't think sometimes we control that. My father-in-law had four girls and he taught them how to do some things because he had no sons. She told me we were out cutting grass and put stuff together and one day I came home thinking I was going to have to put together a bookshelf. She had already done it. So it felt odd at first, because I'm like I told you I would do it. When I got home she's like well, it was here and I wanted to again, she was excited. So she put it together. So this was new, this is new for me. So because I was actually looking forward to putting it together for her. But she did it, and so that level of independence.
Speaker 1:Naturally it won't be everything. There's been plenty of things she has left for me. You know what Us as men, we got to get over ourselves too. I was thinking about like no, nick, oh, I'm going to say something. No, brother, she don't need you. Do you honestly think, if y'all get out of this relationship divorce, whatever it may be that that's just the end of her world, that she's going to die, that she can't feed herself, clothe herself? That's what's going to happen.
Speaker 1:I love how they act helpless and they can't do nothing. I'm going to get out of here because now everybody got cameras inside their house. Men be catching their wives pulling the refrigerator from the wall to sweep behind. They're doing all this stuff. They act like they can't do, but we catching them now. Thank you, ring, thank you all for sending your cameras.
Speaker 1:Lifting the couch, it's like, wait a minute. She holding that up with one hand, wrong, wrong. But then when you home, it's like, oh babe, but they're feeding into our innate desire to provide and to show our manhood in manly ways, use our strength. And to be honest, I mean again we figure out how to we like. Again we love when they provide some form of nourishment. Whether your wife cooks or makes sandwiches or boils some rice, we will, we love it. But if they are not home or before we met them, how do we eat? We figured out some way to eat. So I could again, we could constantly say how much we don't need them.
Speaker 1:But the reality is that we do and that you know we find ones that we, that we want to be with, and we, we, we, we invest in them. We spend time teaching them us and we spend time learning them, and so that's why it's hard when relationships end or divorces happen, because a lot of people I remind my clients for what it's worth. You've been investing. You know if you've been trying to make this work, you've been investing in this relationship all these years. So to watch your investment walk out the door with somebody else is hard. I don't think it's.
Speaker 1:We need to tell the spirit. I mean a lot of times we're thinking about this physical stuff or whatnot, that again I mean, yeah, it's nice for you to protect me. You know it's nice for you to be nurturing to the kid X, y and Z. But if any other person leaves this earth, again, yeah, that person is going to pick up the slack. Yeah, she's going to have to protect herself. Or yeah, i's going to have to protect herself. Or yeah, I'm going to have to raise the kids. One of those things are going to going to happen. So I think that even are the need that we need from each other. I think we probably even go a little bit deeper with that. On a spiritual level we need each other, not just physical.
Speaker 1:Yeah well, I've said it before that God created man in his own image. It wasn't just man, we're not thinking of just the physical, manly side of man. He also created woman, and that is one half of woman, is one half of God. Man is one half of God. Together we are the image of God. If you think about it as a man, we deal with respect, with all respect. So that is Old Testament God, I'm telling you. I said we are like Old Testament God.
Speaker 1:If you did something wrong, you got your consequences. It was. But the New Testament God is more like a woman, where there is grace, there's understanding, there is. You know all right, I know you did wrong. This is how you get right Forgiveness. There is a measure of you may not. I know what you deserve, but I'm going to give you this because I know that you have. I've provided you with the tools in order to get it right, and together it makes that whole Bible so together. That's why I really believe that the enemy is attacking marriages more than anything else, finding any which way it could be other person, it could be music, it could be media, it could be, you know, just being left to our own idle thoughts to attack the home.
Speaker 1:Because he knows, if we are separated, because remember it was in Genesis the fall of Adam and Eve because they were separated, because I believe if Adam was standing right next to Eve, I'm like, wait a minute. Talking serpent, the giraffes don't talk, the zebras don't talk. That talks. We need to leave that alone. Plus, god said don't touch it. He gave, he told Adam you don't eat from it. I don't know if he was around when he gave that instruction, but he entrusted Adam to tell Eve. You know, share some of those directions and because they were separated, they were not as strong of a bond. Remember that that two strands is better than one string. It's got a little bit of strength, but, fellas, we are near that time. I did hear dad, so I know that I heard.
Speaker 1:The first day it's trying to get out before the second day it comes and have to put out some fires. But what are our parting thoughts or final words? Oh, I'm in parting words of final thoughts I can't read today. I would just say respect each other. You know, whether you're in a relationship or not, just all people, just respect each other. You know it goes. It goes a long way, very long, okay, all right To the men out there, before you get out there looking for a relationship again, learn to respect yourself, learn to respect yourself, learn to respect others, um, and that that should make it easier to find someone who respects you. But that's it. And I just say you know.
Speaker 1:You know we were talking about independence. Um, independence isn't a bad thing. Um, weaponizing it is bad. You know, most men would be happy to say, hey, man, my wife can do, my partner can do. You know so many different things, but we've never heard a man boast about his, his woman, his partner, saying I don't need him. You know that she didn't need me, no, and that she has said that we don't, we don't share that, because that is that is embarrassing, that is that is hurtful. And as we know, you know our, our strength is our arms and our, our, you know our muscles and stuff like that, and their strength is their words. And to cut a man down is to tell this man that you do not need him. So. So for the women that are here, please don't tell us that. Find another way to get your message across. And for guys that hear it, listen to the hurt behind that, because there's, there's it has to be some something that's missing in order for that to be said as viciously as it is. For that to be said as viciously as it is, this has been the iron table, or iron sharpens iron.
Speaker 1:I'd like to thank my brothers, keith, steve and Danny, who had to check out early. Look forward to bringing you some truth, some accountability next time, you know. Until then, peace. Well, it's closing time. We are glad you stayed with us this long. The bill oh, we tore that up for truth and accountability are free. You want to leave a tip? Sure, we take your money, but what's even better is if you share this with someone you know, for there's always room for more at the iron table.
